AIA No4 Mk4

[browningautorifle]

Seeing as real M14's are prohibs. up here I have never shot a original one which I would like to do. I remember my son telling me about a quote out of Vietnam regarding the M14 scoped... I can't remember the exact words but was something about the scope mount "allowing the enemy to escape on a regular basis"?

Without draggin' this thread too far, the single point mounts are the problem. That's why the threaded charge guide was installed and the problem evaporated. Then they shot along side the bolt guns(mostly) and were fine. Removing your optic will always cause problems. As for the optic being at fault, a good tradesman never blames his tool. He get's at and sorts out the issue. I'd blame the weapon too if I couldn't hit sh*t...

By the way, the real M14s are as gorgeous to shoot as an FN ever was for us. I've had all of them...

When you guys get to Victoria, I'm available and have room...

Information

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[Brian Dick]

I should clarify a bit. I don't really have an opinion on the quality, accuracy or function of the AIA since I've never even examined one other than in Ian's book. It's the problems dealing with the manufacturer/exporter I'm referring to and the report Steve put out references the same experiences I was hearing back then from others in the trade. One thing I have no respect for is a lack of communication with potential customers as well as long time customers. I go to great lengths to answer every call, email or written correspondence quickly here and expect the same from those I deal with.

I had six M21 sniper rifles in my care as a young Armorer in the PIR in the 1980's. It was before the dedicated U.S. Army sniper school was opened at Fort Benning so we had one at Fort Bragg as most Infantry bases did at the time. The sniper candidates did very well with the rifles equipped with the ARTII telescope and double point scope mount considering the age of the rifles and optics. I will agree that they could be problematic with holding zero if the scope was constantly being removed. I think the earlier single point mounts as used in Vietnam were much worse but have no experience with them. They were all made of aluminum too which also lent to the problem IMHO. The earlier ART1 scope was much better from what I've been told but I have no experience with them either. The steel M25 type scope mounts used these days along with a variety of top notch optics plus synthetic stocks are much better.

---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 PM ----------

A visit to BC is definitely on my list!

[muffett.2008]

Gotta say, I gave them a bit of a belt when the odd one appeared on my range.
Kinda reckoned they were all right, a bit heavy, but hey, for someone that hangs on to a fullbore target rifle most of the time, the weight wasn't really a problem.
Accuracy was bloody good on military type targets.

[enfield303t]

Never thought the original post would generate so much feed back. Good it has and maybe some day I will be allowed to post the prototype pictures I have and that will be as interesting. I had coffee with a buddy last night, this thread and AIA accuracy came up, I am positive I could hit a standard clay pigeon at 300 yards on a pretty regular basis. Good enough for me, considering a chrome lined barrel isn't accurate.....

The No4 I bought is one of 6 with the heavy barrel Marstar rec'd.

[Sentryduty]

Good enough for me, considering a chrome lined barrel isn't accurate

The majority of of my shooting in life have been down chrome lined pipes, and I always choose a chrome lined barrel when available, durability means more to me than benchrest class accuracy. It's not as though a chrome lined barrel takes a lazer beam rifle and degrades it to a slingshot.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Whilst the "National Match" M-14s were specifically fitted with "un-chromed" barrels of extremely fine tolerance, the (X)M-21 snipers were, apparently, mostly built on TRW rifles with TRW CHROME lined barrels. The un-chromed tubes were supposed to deliver tighter groups at "polite" venues like Camp Perry.

However, on the "two-way rifle range", especially in soggy, tropical places, chrome-lining was (and still is), a "good thing".

A major part of the trick for a "good" chromed barrel is to have the rifling formed without sharp internal or external corners, so that the chrome deposits on the steel as evenly as possible, AND provides no "lumpy bits" to be torn off by the first bullet and thus compromise the coating. H&Ks take the "no sharp edges" idea to extremes, but the rifling form is ideal for plating.

I once had a TRW specimen that got the AMTU treatment and wore a nice bit of Redfield glass. It retained its early-60's chrome-lined barrel and shot VERY well with Oz F4 ball ammo, and astoundingly well with a couple of different 150gn "hunting" bulleted handloads.

[enfield303t]

I have always found the statement somewhat baffling as I had never heard it before from any gun reviewer!

"DO NOT BE FOOLED BY ADS DEPICTING RIFLES WITH CHROME LINED BARRELS AS BEING "COMPETITION, TARGET GRADE, TUNED" OR ANY OTHER DESCRIPTION.

COMPETITIVE SHOOTERS DO NOT USE CHROME LINED BARRELS - PERIOD.

THEY ARE NOT ACCURATE."

The post by Bruce sure debunks that statement and I admit my AIA's are not the most accurate guns I own however they do shoot pretty well considering my tired old eyes and body. Done properly there is no reason a chrome lined barrel wouldn't be accurate, I have shot some H&K guns which were great for accuracy.

Next trip out I am going to take my B2 out to refresh my memory on its accuracy and the No4 when I find a good piece of glass to put on it. Between my son and I we have some very good scopes but no way are we going to remove one to put on the No4.

Another point was made that "AIA had more than enough opportunity to give the writer a gun to evaluate", well IIRC from correspondence from AIA they weren't interested in providing that person a gun for free! If you want to test a gun and can't get one for free then buy one or don't write about it.

I am also not worried about any of my AIA's failing or blowing up in my face, I am beyond anal on reloading and have always checked for over pressure signs or case failure. Head space seems to be tight and chambers as smooth as my other .308's.

[Brian Dick]

I reckon I'm not that good of a shot then because I've been using chrome and non chrome barrels for years with no noticeable difference. It's true that NM M14 rifles didn't have them but to be honest, I don't think chrome lined M14 barrels were even produced until late in the rifle's career. I know they came into play as a product improvement with the M16/M16A1 and it's variants because of problems encountered in Vietnam which were propellant related as well as caused by tropic humidity and poor maintenance.

I can't remember exactly but I think the M21's I had in my care in the early-mid 1980's were all SA manufacture. Being a "gun guy" I would have taken notice of a stray TRW or H&R. They were just converted NM M14's and none had chrome lined barrels. There may have been purpose built TRW M21 rifles with chrome bores but we never saw them.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

From:

SA-SIP-7790476, Rifle, U. S., 7.62-MM, M14, National Match

"213.2 Barrel 7791362 is used for the National Match M14 rifle, differing from that of the standard M14 rifle in that the critical dimensions are more closely held and the bore and chamber are not chrome plated.

213.2.1 Bore diameter shall be .300 + .001. Groove diameter shall be .3075 + .0010"., blah, blah, ....the maximum allowable deviation from that centerline shall not exceed 0deg2min23sec throughout the length of the bore.

Thus, the N.M. barrels were a special run, not just "unplated" standard tubes.

Standard barrel Drawing No is: 7790190, (two sheets)

Somewhere here I should have the full ordnance drawings for that standard barrel. Will take a bit more excavation.

[browningautorifle]

the N.M. barrels were a special run

That makes perfect sense too, the whole rifle was special thus the attention to marking it so.