"Sporterised" Lee-Enfields in WWII

[Peter Laidler]

Simple. He and his mates sit alongside a 113 while grabbing a quick bite to eat. Driver reverses AFV back to put it in a more hull-down concealed position and runs over rifle of someone who is around the other side having a pee. Seen similar things happen time and time again........

[Strangely Brown]

How does a soldier in the field bend a substantial piece of steel like a No1 barrel to a 70 degree angle?

We had an L42A1 with a damaged barrel that got trapped between the gap of the door and hinges of a pig in Northern Ireland. I didn't see it but apparently the door was slammed with some force.
Its difficult to imagine a barrel that thick being damaged enough to actually bend, my own thoughts are that it was probably surface damaged......but what say the armourers?

Talking to the lad who was issued with it (reacquainted via Facebook) he was given a replacement within 48 hours.

[browningautorifle]

How does a soldier in the field bend a substantial piece of steel like a No1 barrel

As Peter says, it ain't that hard. Really...

[shoe303]

All this talked of cut back Enfields got me thinking about a picture I have in one of my books on China, Burma and India that shows a cut back No. 4 during the battle for Mandalay in Burma. I managed to find it and here it is:







The caption for this photo said these troops were on Pagoda Hill overlooking Mandalay. I always thought the cut down No. 4 was pretty interesting because I did not recall ever seeing another one like it actually in service.

[enfield303t]

Because people that have zero military experience want these romantic notions to be true. And the internet makes it worse. If a soldier had cut down his rifle or customized it in ANY way, as a Snr NCO I'd have danced him directly to the jail house. Do not pass go. I'd have done it on my own authority...

We had a young man once that wanted to stand out on parade so he went to buy a small screwdriver set. He sat in his room in the quarters and stripped his FN C1 A1 to pennybits and removed every spot of parkerizing visible. Upon return to stores he was immediately charged for destruction of goods.

Now let's come down off the clouds and forget this happy hogsh*t. As the others pointed out, one plantation rifle and one looks like a destroyed rifle. RQ's problem now...

Good post Jim.

Sandy Scott the sniper Cass and I did the story on told us he modified the butt stock hand grip on his BSA T so it fit him better. When he turned it in they told him he had to pay for it, he told them to "pound sand" as he was being discharged. Sandy was one tough guy and I can just imagine the conversation that occurred.

One dare not modify anything without facing the wrath of a superior officer.

[browningautorifle]

shows a cut back No. 4 during the battle for Mandalay in Burma.

I'll bet there's way more to that story than that.

One dare not modify anything without facing the wrath of a superior officer.

There are simpler stories that are far less venomous too, during WW1(I know that ain't what we're discussin')...men that hated the Ross discarded it and picked up a #1Mk3 when they could. Upon return to lines, they were charged and after summary trial were fined the cost of the Ross for "The loss of a rifle"... No story washed, "But sir, it was blown to bits and I picked this one up". So doing what a rifleman wanted wouldn't fly either... That's just one example that comes to mind.

As for Sandy and his "Discussion" with the release clerk, a man always has some money coming to him at outclearance. I'll bet they just raped his paybook and left it at that. The rifle cost what? $35CDN for a #4 Mk2T back when I saw the microfich? A basic rifle would be less...

[Sentryduty]

No mods were allowed when we were overseas either...

During my time overseas we were allowed to play with the "lego" bits of the C7, which is purchase/addition/subtraction of parts, and paint of the rifle. Grips, handguards, sights, stocks, bipods, ergonomic items were common, but no alterations to the barrel, action or mechanism were tolerated.

Although one of my Section C9 gunners did obtain a spare LMG barrel that had been chopped to 12" somewhere, and his use of that went unquestioned for the duration. He wouldn't tell me where he got it, but I knew it was an unofficial job, because the flash suppressor of installed off index. These kind of barrels were later officially supplied.

Then again, at the time, and reflecting historically Task Force 1-06 Afghanistan was a bit of a "cowboy" tour and we had a lot of latitude beyond peacetime operations.

[mike16]

anybody who's been in the military never mind combat does not carry two rifles. maybe a submachine gun or pistol but not another rifle. I very much doubt that you could randomly modify a military service rifle without comment from higher up's. Also I have seen alot of photo's suposedly of WWII in asia that were actualy later in malasia. Just saying.

It was quite often that when a barrel was shot out, it was easy to bend it 90 degrees to facilitate its removal. why bend it 90 iif iit will unscrew just as easily at 70 degrees? even when the rifle is 100 years old and the barrel has not been replaced once or more its not that hard to uncrew a barrel. bending a barrel 90 or 70 degrees prevents it from beeing used or misused again.

I would never rebuild or reuse a rifle that had been in a fire. heat treating goes right out the door along with safety. hot enough to burn of all the wood? no way.

interesting pictures but lets avoid turning speculation into fact.

[browningautorifle]

Task Force 1-06 Afghanistan

That was almost the beginning actually...a bad time.

[Surpmil]

So I wonder who was billed for all those rifles, Brens and Boys ATRs left lying on the sand at Dunkirk? Did anyone get hauled up by the quartermaster or billed for their losses after they got off the boat at Dover? How about the ordnance returns from Singapore? Used to wrap parts or wipe bottoms probably. How about Greece or Crete in 1941? Who paid for all that lot?

Kit lying all over the place and no one bothered with it, but we're supposed to believe that if a soldier picked some of it up and messed about with it he'd be up on a charge?

How about those soldiers buried in Italy or a dozen other theatres with their rifles stuck muzzle down in the dirt? Are we going to pretend that no NCO or officer saw it being done? How about a soldier who lost his rifle in WWI? Is anyone seriously going to propose that he was made to pay for it? I'd like to see some evidence to back up that claim.

So there's a photo of a cut down No4 and he's not under close arrest? I'll bet the fellow next to him with the binoculars is an NCO too. Maybe he just hadn't noticed the rifle yet?

Worth remembering that most soldiers in world wars are not careerists, they're in for the duration and they don't much care for all the procedural bumpf that keeps things running in peacetime. If you want to know what it was like in a field dressing station in WWI or WWII you could go and ask your GP, but I suspect you'd learn more reading the comments of those who were actually there.

Sorry if that offends anyone, but since none of us were there, we'd probably best rely on the evidence of those who were.