Any cure for bolt lift?

[No4Mk1(T)]

OK guys I think we have just about beat this one to death now.
All parties involved have put forth very good points to support their point of view but we aren’t moving forward anymore. Let’s call this one done and move onto the next one.

[Alfred]

I did go back a reread your first post & you're quite right with your reply but
It was a generalization statement on posts from different forums on this subject of "bolt lift" not about you.

Also reread Alfred's next post about seeing "bolt lift" with live firing, i have also witnessed this, could this be due to a excessively weak spring causing the firing pin and cocking piece to bounce or maybe a firing pin to set to far back causing the cocking piece to slam into the rear of the bolt body?

Theres a possibility that sluggish ignition contributes, allowing the bolt handle to rise further before the chamber pressure comes into play.
If so then there might be less bolt lift when fresh ammunition is used.

If the *bolt head timing is not set properly you can have more bolt jump.
(*When the bolt head contacts the collar on the firing pin as you screw the bolt head closed.)

Thats something I'll check on.
The way the shank of the bolt head of this rifle is visibly broader at the base than further up towards the shoulder might be the result of repeated impacts upsetting the metal. The bolthead is more worn than it appeared to be because it still clocks in within prescribed limits due to the base being hammered by the firing pin collar. Its possible that the previous owner did a lot of dry firing practice, or if the rifle spent some time as a training rifle it may have been dry fired much more than fired with live ammo, which would go a long way towards explaining the still excellent condition of the bore.

Excessive bolt jump may be a result of excessive dry firing.

Some slight bolt jump is tolerable and nothing would be thought of it, so no real fix was required, rifles still in service would be unlikely to be dry fired much if any. The replacement of weak springs and such as a matter of course would be enough.

Old rifles that have been out of service for a generation will have received no attention from armorers for several decades. Those given to third world allies or WW2 resistence groups may have never received any attention from an armorer trained in inspecting and repairing Enfields.

[Edward Horton]

5th Batt

You are right I have not answered “why the lift is largely reduced on all & eliminated on some rifles when the contact between the handle & receiver is eliminated.”

Now I will tell you “why” I didn’t answer your question, the Enfield bolt has two positions when cycling the bolt “Fully Opened” and “Fully Closed”, the bolt does NOT have a partially closed position, a almost closed position or a almost partially closed on a piece of paper position.

Now I have a question for you, how many people have you seen when they are shooting their Enfield reach out and partially open their bolt before they pull the trigger?

If you want a real answer to your question there is no such thing as bolt jump, but some Enfield’s have had the Snoxall speed cocking modification done to them.

Now STOP worrying about bolt jump and worrying about something real like swine flu….

[Edward Horton]

To the Moderators

I’m sorry but this fairy tale needed a funny ending………

[Alfred]

If you want a real answer to your question there is no such thing as bolt jump,

Yet it exists just the same.
Despite yourself you have contributed at least one bit of useful information during your ongoing efforts to kill the thread.

I’m sorry but this fairy tale needed a funny ending………

Since your fairy tale has ended we can hope that was your exit.
Though if you can think of anything useful theres no reason you shouldn't swallow your pride and return long enough to post it.


I think we can consider the magnitude of bolt lift as a "tell" to alert the user or inspector that some things need to be examined closely and attended to.
Much like the position of the operating handle of a jammed Lewisgun could alert the gunner to the most likely causes of the jam and the proper method of dealing with it.

I figure that for my rifle a more or less permanent fix will be to obtain a new condition replacement bolthead and fit it carefully.

I just cleaned the wax from the receiver and bolt and oiled it. There was only a hint of bolt lift. A thicker lube is in order, but the other steps taken have at least temporarily cured the problem.

[Edward Horton]

Alfred, AKA GunnerSam, AKA Temperflash

Please note my last two posts were addressed to the moderators and 5th Batt and NOT to you.

BUT while you are here, under how many different names and how many forums do you have to ask the same question and beat the same subject to death especially when the first reply from Thunderbox answered the question completely.

The shame of it is you knew what the responses were going to be before you posted your question, therefore your question was pointless to begin with.

[Edward Horton]

The moderators want us to get off this topic so lets talk about Mosin bolt jump.

[Alfred]

The moderators want us to get off this topic so lets talk about Mosin bolt jump

Could be they just want you to stop posting bandwidth wasting images that have nothing to do with the thread, and greatly slow down the loading of each page, and trying your best to kill any discussion of something you no so little about that you must pretend it must not exist.

As for Thunderbox's reply.

It is completely normal on all Lee Enfields and does not require any fixing. The only thing actually preventing bolt lift is friction within the bolt channel - which is why older SMLEs tend to show most bolt lift, and late No4s show the least.

The cocking piece has a safety lug that prevents the bolt from opening during the firing process - if the bolt is slightly open, then this lug cams the bolt closed. If the bolt is somehow half open, the safety lug prevents the cocking piece from going forward.

The lug of the cocking piece in its track allows the bolt to rotate nearly halfway out of battery, that greatly decreases the strength of the lock up. Theres not such a great margin of safety in the Enfield or any other bolt action that this would be acceptable. It would continually batter the locking surfaces at the midway point damaging them sooner or later.
A "friction" fit of the bolt or heavy treacley grease to induce resistence doesn't address any causation, it just masks the situation.
Never seen a bolt designed to bind in its track.

5th Battery at least had the courtesy to examine the question and perform a simple test on his three rifles of various vintages.

Since Ed admits he has nothing to contribute to the discussion.............................

[5thBatt]

Dear Edward Horton

Bolt lift on my rifles (unless they do it during live firing) is a NON-ISSUE to me, i don't care in the slightest if they do or not.

When i first read this thread i thought exactly what you have been saying, however i instead of jumping on Alfred's back, i decided to try an experiment & to my surprise Alfred seemed to be on to something.

This thread to me, is about learning something different to what i had previously thought.

If you cannot contribute something constructive to this thread, please do not visit.

5thBatt.

[Edward Horton]

I have nothing to contribute to this posting other than the manuals for inspecting and gauging the Enfield Rifle for serviceability, it is a very simple system of inspection and it either passes inspection or fails inspection.

No bubble gum, bailing wire, Teflon tape or amateur guesswork.

When you pull the trigger on your Enfield rifle with 49,000 PSI of chamber pressure it is not the time for amateur guesswork when we have manuals to give us the correct answers.





Alfred when you argue with half the people in these forums including Peter Laidler a trained British Armouer and author who actually worked on the Enfield rifle I would say you have a major problem accepting answers that other people give you.

You didn’t come here to ask anyone questions on bolt lift Alfred, you came here to force feed us your shade tree repair ideas on bolt lift. The problem is you won’t find any of your ideas or theories in ANY Enfield repair manual.