Long Branch serial ???

[billy67]

Hi,
have a noob question.
Is there any standard regarding the serial number stamp on the forend of the LB ? just behind the sling swivel. How does it work ? I don't think it goes with year of manufacture because my unissued 1950 doesn't have it and I see many 1950 LB (and different years) online with the SN on the stock.

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

The UK Military put the serial number on the fore-end because it was important for the accuracy of the rifle that the accurately fitted fore-end remained with that rifle. Experts have told me that it was to make the weekly serial number armoury check simpler......

To be honest, it's highly unlikely that your un-numnbered fore-end rifle is going to go into a big workshop for the fore-end to be accidentally changed with others so you could leave it as-is or number it. It's entirely up to you!

Just my 2c's worth

[Seaspriter]

you could leave it as-is or number it. It's entirely up to you!

Billy67: Thanks for asking. Peter Laidler is a highly respected retired British Armourer with all the credentials to renumber a fore-end.

This is where the ethics issue comes to play. Putting stamps on a gun 65 years after it was built to make it look more authentic raises some important issues.

- If you (or I) renumber the fore-end, you (or I) are faking the documentation of the gun -- something that you (or I) might do without any malicious intent, but a future owner years from now will assume to be original (or will spot as a fake because we don't have the right fonts for our stamps)

- However, if Peter Laidler (or another one of our other retired Armourer's) checked all the drawer fittings and bedding, ascertained meeting Armourer's standards, then I'd think that was ethical. (In this case, I'd propose that a "*" be put after the restamping, and a document explaining what happened be put in the butt hole for posterity to know the circumstances.)

For another example, Captain Laidler restores Sniper Scopes and has written extensively about them, and is considered a world-wide authority. If he changed something on a Sniper Scope in accordance with Royal Armourer's Standards, that's OK. If I did such a thing, its a FAKE.

[billy67]

ok. maybe its because of my bad english (Im a french Canadian) I think I am missunderstood here.
I do not have any intention of adding serial number on my rifles.
What I wanted to know is why some LB we can sees, has the serial number stamps on the fore-end and on some others, the serial is not stamps ? thats it.
I have a 1950 unissued un-numbered and my friend also has the same years LB 1950 with a serial on.
I wondering whether this serial was added there from the LB factory ? and if yes, why its not on all LB Ive seens
I also have a 1943 and a 1944 with what its seems to be the original wood furniture's on and there is no serial either.
Im quit a purist about milsurps so, its out of question, Im gonna fake my rifles.

[Seaspriter]

Merci Monsieur, je comprend. Pardonez moi. Je parle Anglais, et Francais est tres difficile pour moi.

C'est tres possible que votre fore-end est un "replacement" et le fore-end de votre ami c'est original.
Bon Chance, Robert

Perhaps our bi-lingual Canadians can fix my multiple faux pas and please pardon me for butchering a beautiful language.

[Ridolpho]

This is a question of interest to me too. Can the collector-experts out there tell us which factories might have stamped serials on forends when brand new. Most of mine have numbers but, of course, most of them are beneficiaries of refurbishment at some point. The only two I have that are probably as issued and have numbers are 50's Mk2 from Faz. and a POF Mk2.

Ridolpho

[Lee Enfield]

ok. maybe its because of my bad english (Im a french Canadian) I think I am missunderstood here.
I do not have any intention of adding serial number on my rifles.
What I wanted to know is why some LB we can sees, has the serial number stamps on the fore-end and on some others, the serial is not stamps ? thats it.
I have a 1950 unissued un-numbered and my friend also has the same years LB 1950 with a serial on.
I wondering whether this serial was added there from the LB factory ? and if yes, why its not on all LB Ive seens
I also have a 1943 and a 1944 with what its seems to be the original wood furniture's on and there is no serial either.
Im quit a purist about milsurps so, its out of question, Im gonna fake my rifles.

Long Branch serial numbered it's for ends in 1941,42,and early 1943 production.

Long Branch no4 rifles were NOT serial numbered at the factory in (late) 1943,1944,45,49,50,51 production years.

[Brian Dick]

I'm not an "exspurt" but here's what I've found. All of the British produced rifles had serial numbers stamped on the forearms from the factory. Some ROF Maltby rifles have it stamped on the top of the wrist of the buttstock too. Long Branch numbered the forends at the factory up into 1944 production and then stopped for whatever reason at some point as I've seen them both with and without but can't remember serial number ranges. 1949-1950 production rifles built at CAL Long Branch didn't have serial numbered forends from the factory. Just my 2 cents having had several hundred through here over the years. Even Long Branch sniper rifles don't have serial numbers on the forends from the factory in my experience. Savage production rifles weren't numbered either except the snipers converted at H&H and they were numbered during the conversion process. When standard Savage service rifles are found with serial numbered forends, they were most likely done by British Armourers while in the MoD system.

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:43 PM ----------

I stand corrected by Lee Enfield. They stopped numbering forends at the LB factory in late 1943.

[Lee Enfield]

I'm not an "exspurt" but here's what I've found. All of the British produced rifles had serial numbers stamped on the forearms from the factory. Some ROF Maltby rifles have it stamped on the top of the wrist of the buttstock too. Long Branch numbered the forends at the factory up into 1944 production and then stopped for whatever reason at some point as I've seen them both with and without but can't remember serial number ranges. 1949-1950 production rifles built at CAL Long Branch didn't have serial numbered forends from the factory. Just my 2 cents having had several hundred through here over the years. Even Long Branch sniper rifles don't have serial numbers on the forends from the factory in my experience. Savage production rifles weren't numbered either except the snipers converted at H&H and they were numbered during the conversion process. When standard Savage service rifles are found with serial numbered forends, they were most likely done by British Armourers while in the MoD system.

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:43 PM ----------

I stand corrected by Lee Enfield. They stopped numbering forends at the LB factory in late 1943.

I've heard of 1944s with serial numbers but have not seen any which I believe were original.

I have seen 1949 dated rifles (and a few others) with serial numbered forends, but they were target rifles, and were not serial numbered in the conventional way.

As Brian has pointed out, Long Branch snipers forends are not serial number stamped in '44, '45/ '46 production....and if anything would have been, it would be a sniper rifle.

Earlier (pre 1944 dated) Long Branch snipers are few and far between.

My own 1943 dated example is not serial numbered as I recall.

[Brian Dick]

You're correct L.E.. I just looked at my two 1944 rifles, one has distinctly British numbering on the forend and the other which is "minty" does not. Incidentally; of all the LB No.4's I've had through here, I've never seen a 1951 production rifle.