Need help. What am I looking at...IBM w/ Ser.# deeply and sharply cut into stock...

[Panchogun]

Need help. What am I looking at...IBM w/ Ser.# deeply and sharply cut into stock...

I collect WW2 pistols, but don't own any WW2 rifles, and don't have any collector knowledge or books about them at all.

Stopped at a pawn shop today-took a break from work. Pawn shop has typical "guns" sign, and have driven by this place about 200 times, always telling myself that I should stop. Never did, until today (Mon 4/23).

Looked at an M1 Carbine, IBM, Ser#3883132, was rough, but didn't seem to have been abused, no rust, no pits. What caught my eye was that the shoulder stock had the same serial number cut deeply and sharply cut into it, numbers were about 5/8" tall, and also had some numbers and an "X" painted onto the butt plate . The gun did not have any significant bluing, had browned. It looked to be all there, except the rear sight had been drifted clean out, but was taped to the trigger guard in a small plastic bag.
They wanted $800 for the piece.

Can someone give me any collector info on this weapon, as to year of manufacture, meaning or significance of the Ser# on the stock, what marks etc. should I be looking for, and a ballpark figure as to value.

If necessary, I could go back and try to get some photos,
but would appreciate some feedback first.

Thanks

Information

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[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Panchogun,

First off, welcome to the carbine forum.

Up in the tool bar on the right we have a search feature. Typing key words there could lead you to threads about that topic. Lots of information that could help you make your decision.

You are asking some question without giving the information needed to give you the answers.

I.B.M. made carbines from the third quarter of 1943 through the second quarter of 1944. The serial number would be needed to narrow it down any more then that.

Having the serial number stamped into the stock usually means it has been brought back into the country from another. The US furnished carbines to various countries after the war.

Parts markings and types could also be different depending on the serial number.

Íf you are looking for a collector grade carbine, this isn't it. It sounds like an imported carbine. Which normally doesn't carry much on the collector market. But it could be a good shooter.

Pictures would be a big help. They would show features. Some are worth more then others. That has an effect on the value.

From what you have described, $800 might be at the top end of it's value. But again, pictures would help.

I hope you enjoy our forum.

Jim

[imarangemaster]

If the serial number is on the left side of the stock, just to the rear of the wrist (grip area), it is probably a re-import from Israel. Most of these that are coming back from Israel were Mash Az volunteer Police (neighborhood watch with guns, basically) weapons. They are generally very good mechanically, as the Israelis really take care of their weapons, and generally used USGI replacement parts. If the serial number matches the one on the receiver, it is actually a plus. I had one for a number of years, and it was an excellent weapon.

[Neal Myers]

The M1 carbine was made with mostly parkerized parts, with a couple of blued small parts; the "brown" you describe IS rust, a sign of heavy use &/or neglect. It may also be a re-import from Greece. The rear sight in a bag is a sure sign of abuse by Bubba, possibly irreparable.

If the barrel is bad (worn, rusted, or pitted bore), or it is worn out at the muzzle (measured with a gauge or a round of .30-06 stuck point first in the muzzle), it will cost $350-500 to replace.

Jim gave you the possible high value; a pessimist such as myself would estimate the low side value at $200.

Neal

[ChipS]

One source (Ruth) estimates date of manufacture in or about March 1944. I assume other references may vary a month or two. I wouldn't even consider buying it if the rear sight isn't tight in the receiver dovetail. Like someone said above, Bubba may have damaged the receiver irreparably - and that's probably the most valuable part. If the receiver and barrel are OK, I guess the value will depend a lot on the manufacture of the parts. If the parts are all IBM, or if there are some rarer parts from other manufacturers, then the value would be higher. If not it would be lower. Without more details I don't think anyone can give you a reliable evaluation. It could be worth more than $800 but, unless it is in a real 'dug relic' condition, I doubt that it is worth less than $200. JMHO

[USGI]

Panchogun: I can almost picture your carbine. I think I have one almost identical that I bought about a year ago. Mine is an IBM with the s/n stamped into the left side of the stock. It has a C.A.I. (Century Arms International) import mark stamped on the bottom side of the barrel a few inches behind the front sight. My IBM was a return from Israel. When I bought it, the store had another there with a loose rear sight. The receiver was OK, but the sight looked worn out. The finish on mine is like you described. It's not pitted, and it's the best shooting carbine I have right now. I used a coupon when I bought mine and it was something like $630. A local gun shop has one just like it priced at about $750, and the owner is thinking of dropping it to $699. Once in a while you can still buy a good carbine for $400-$500, but they're pretty hard to find. I don't think you are going to find anyone who will sell you one for $200 - unless they are completely out of touch with the market. It's probably been a good 15 years since I've heard of any selling that low - unless it's a commercial version or a "parts gun." I'll try to find a link for you with a thread about my IBM. Welcome to the forum! - Bob

Here's the link to my IBM thread: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=35946&page=1

[Panchogun]

Thank you, USGI. A very helpful response. I'm going to try to swing by that pawn shop again next week and try to get some photos, but I think you have hit the nail on the head. I agree on the infeasibility of a $200 carbine. I've wanted a carbine for a long, long time. Have collected WW2 bring back pistols for many years, but never owned a WW2 rifle. This one caught my eye, thought it might be worth a shot. Again, thanks to all for your help.

By the way, here is a link to my pistol collection.

http://www.panchogun.com/