World War II British BSA No. 4 Mk I (T) Enfield Bolt Action Sniper Rifle with Matchin

[Martiy1971]

So made my second Lee Enfield purchase, and the first was commensurate with the funds paid. Hopefully this one is a bit better purchase (I will post what pics I have, but will not have more until the rifle lands in Canada), It came from the recent Rock Island Auction, and although I am new to the board and LE's in particular, I have been collecting for 20 years. Here's what I have and hopefully I hear some constructive feedback

World War II British BSA No. 4 Mk I (T) Enfield Bolt Action Sniper Rifle with Matching Numbered Scope

This BSA manufactured No. 4 Mk I (T) Enfield sniper rifle is fitted with a No. 32 Mk 3 scope and mount. "M47/1943/AK1335/TR" marked on the left of the stock socket. The comb of the stock has a hardwood cheekpiece held on with two wood screws. Standard blade front sight and absent rear sight. Matching serial number "AK1335" marked on the bolt handle and "1335" stamped twice on the bottom of the forend. The scope tube is marked "TEL.STG.No 32 Mk 3/OS.2039A.(logo)No19384" and also has a red painted "W" and a blue painted "B", with the standard post and cross-hair reticle pattern, and fitted in a cast scope mount matching serial numbered "G31222" on the left. The matching number to the scope "19384" is stamped on top of the buttstock at the wrist (below two other crossed out numbers), and "S51" is stamped on the bottom of the buttstock indicating conversion by Holland & Holland. Includes a period brown leather sling, reproduction brown leather scope lens covers, and cleaning rope in the butt compartment.

Very fine, retains 75% plus wartime arsenal applied dull blue finish with a few small areas of light pitting and traces of black painted finish. The wood is also very fine with defined edges, some light handling marks, and crisp stampings. Mechanically excellent. The scope and mount are both very fine with some light spotting on the tube and clear optics.

[husk]

It’s doubtful anyone on the forum will give an opinion on your rifle without additional photos. When you can, post photos of the scope mount and the cancelled scope numbers on the wrist.

[Roger Payne]

It's probably a genuine enough 4T but as husk says, more photo's with greater detail of the markings, areas showing the body pads (with scope & bracket removed) would be helpful. It has clearly been rescoped (& rebracketed) as the Mk3 scope did not go in to production until October 1944, & the bracket bears the serial of a 1944 BSA produced rifle. It's a question of who & when did the rematching. If the G31222 is not barred out then it is likely the scope & bracket have been put on by a civvy. However, we shouldn't say too much without some more revealing pics....!

[Martiy1971]

It's probably a genuine enough 4T but as husk says, more photo's with greater detail of the markings, areas showing the body pads (with scope & bracket removed) would be helpful. It has clearly been rescoped (& rebracketed) as the Mk3 scope did not go in to production until October 1944, & the bracket bears the serial of a 1944 BSA produced rifle. It's a question of who & when did the rematching. If the G31222 is not barred out then it is likely the scope & bracket have been put on by a civvy. However, we shouldn't say too much without some more revealing pics....!

posting now

[Martiy1971]

hopefully these upload ok. The picture upload interface is a bit cumbersome.

[Roger Payne]

Looks honest enough. Originally had a Houghton Butcher Mk1 scope on it & then rescoped twice with Mk3's. Do you have any pix of the rifle body (preferably with the scope off) & the bracket? It's a Rose Brothers bracket but with a few more views we might be able to tell you a little more. As mentioned before, if the (presumed) old rifle serials on the bracket have not been barred out then it likely has been rescoped by a civvy. The military always bar out & rematch.....

A little atypical that the rifle serial stamped into the business end of the forend is present both around & along the stock. On 4T's it is usually along, & stamped in a little further rearwards, just behind the wood subcontractor's identifying logo/code/initials. Serials applied around the camber of the forend are more typical of standard issue rifles.

No doubt about it though, rifle, scope & bracket all look tidy enough. Have you had a chance to take her out & put a few rounds through her yet?

[Martiy1971]

Looks honest enough. Originally had a Houghton Butcher Mk1 scope on it & then rescoped twice with Mk3's. Do you have any pix of the rifle body (preferably with the scope off) & the bracket? It's a Rose Brothers bracket but with a few more views we might be able to tell you a little more. As mentioned before, if the (presumed) old rifle serials on the bracket have not been barred out then it likely has been rescoped by a civvy. The military always bar out & rematch.....

A little atypical that the rifle serial stamped into the business end of the forend is present both around & along the stock. On 4T's it is usually along, & stamped in a little further rearwards, just behind the wood subcontractor's identifying logo/code/initials. Serials applied around the camber of the forend are more typical of standard issue rifles.

No doubt about it though, rifle, scope & bracket all look tidy enough. Have you had a chance to take her out & put a few rounds through her yet?

Haven't had a chance to put any rounds downrange, I only just received it this week and it is from a Rock Island Auction back in mid December.

[Surpmil]

I would second Roger's comment that it is very unlikely to a be a military scope replacement job. I have heard on good authority that in many most or all cases the scopes were separated from the rifles before disposal in the UK, and that is a typical procedure in the surplussing process.

According to reports I have heard years ago, the US importers either couldn't be bothered to reunite scopes with rifles, or the disposal authorities in the UK deliberately tried to ensure that was impossible; both are conceivable scenarios.

[Martiy1971]

Looks honest enough. Originally had a Houghton Butcher Mk1 scope on it & then rescoped twice with Mk3's. Do you have any pix of the rifle body (preferably with the scope off) & the bracket? It's a Rose Brothers bracket but with a few more views we might be able to tell you a little more. As mentioned before, if the (presumed) old rifle serials on the bracket have not been barred out then it likely has been rescoped by a civvy. The military always bar out & rematch.....

A little atypical that the rifle serial stamped into the business end of the forend is present both around & along the stock. On 4T's it is usually along, & stamped in a little further rearwards, just behind the wood subcontractor's identifying logo/code/initials. Serials applied around the camber of the forend are more typical of standard issue rifles.

No doubt about it though, rifle, scope & bracket all look tidy enough. Have you had a chance to take her out & put a few rounds through her yet?

I am pretty new to the Enfield world, so bear with me. If I understand correctly the three various serial numbers at 12 o'clock position right before the action should be the scope serial number? and if arsenal refurbished each previous number should be stroked out with a line and the new one added. correct?It appears that there are two serial numbers in front of the current, but the first serial number is really small font compared to the two others. I agree that it is likely a civvy replacement; however, having a later dated scope or mount is not out of the realm of possibility due to the fragility of the scopes and arsenal refurbishment? what should i be looking for underneath to photograph?

Oh, and apologies for the resolution........I went to enlarge the photos and I swear I could see the iron atoms in the steel.

[Roger Payne]

I just had a look at the photo's that you posted at the top of the thread. They tend to lose definition as you enlarge them, but as best I can see the serial number on the scope bracket is for a B prefixed 1944 BSA Shirley 4T. As far as I could see there are no other numbers. Further, the B prefix number on the bracket does not look to have been barred out. If this is the case it suggests that the rematching of the rifle to the current Mk3 scope & bracket was carried out after the rifle left military service, as military armourers barred out (I have also seen serials XXX'ed out) the old serial & replaced it with the the serial of the new rifle on the scope bracket. Similarly the scope serial would be barred through & replaced with the new scope number stamped into the butt just behind the cocking piece. In your case the smaller font serial (it looks like it might be 4560 or similar, to me, equating to a Mk1 scope made by Houghton Butcher Manufacturing Company), is the original number, being replaced by a 18XXX Mk3 scope, which itself was replaced by a 19XXX Mk3 scope at some point. The lack of the barring out of the B prefix rifle serial on the bracket, together with the large font scope numbers on the butt to me suggest the work was done after the rifle, scope & bracket left military service. This does not mean for one moment that it is not a nice 4T. I'd give it house room!