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Thread: SOME NEW LEE-ENFIELD RIFLE PARTS – COUNTRY Of MANUFACTURE ?

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    SOME NEW LEE-ENFIELD RIFLE PARTS – COUNTRY Of MANUFACTURE ?

    This is my first post on “The Lee-Enfield Forum” (My only other posts were on the “M1 Garand/M14/M1Aicon Rifles” Forum back in March of 2009.).

    A few days ago, I had the extremely good fortune to purchase some new Lee-Enfield parts from Craig Jones (crjay36 on eBay.com) in Great Britain. He is a SUPERB SELLER, he provides SUPERB SERVICE, and he sells a SUPERB PRODUCT at a SUPERB PRICE. I’d assumed that those parts were manufactured at the Pakistan Ordnance Factory, but after I received and examined them, I’m not sure.

    Each of the No. 4 rifle extractors I purchased from Craig is electro penciled with what appears to me to be a “F” and a “Britishicon Broad Arrow” on its bottom flat surface. Do those markings indicate that those extractors were manufactured at the Royal Ordnance Factory at Fazakerley?

    Each of the No. 5 MK 1 rifle backsights I purchased from Craig is stamped (not electro penciled) as follows: with a “P” in three (3) places – near the top of the front (upper) bright surface of its Suncorite coated milled leaf, on the left side surface of its Suncorite coated milled slide, and on the back (lower) surface of its Suncorite coated milled slide adjusting screw nut; with a “P” over a “5” on the top surface of its Suncorite coated milled slide adjusting screw; with a “CR 318” also on the left side surface of its Suncorite coated milled slide; with a “89” near the top of the back (lower) surface of its Suncorite coated milled leaf; and with a “46” in two (2) places – on the top (forward) surface of its Suncorite coated milled leaf, and on the right side surface of its Suncorite coated milled slide. Do those markings indicate that those backsights were manufactured at the Pakistan Ordnance Factory in 1946?

    (From what little I know about Lee-Enfield rifles, I’ve never read anything about the Pakistan Ordnance Factory ever manufacturing any parts for any Lee-Enfield No. 5 MK 1 rifles. I’ve read that the Royal Ordnance Factory at Poole manufactured No. 5, No. 7, and NO. 9 MK 1 bayonets for Lee-Enfield No. 4 and No. 5 rifles, but all of those bayonets were stamped with a “P” inside of a circle. And I’ve never read anything about the Royal Ordnance Factory at Poole ever manufacturing any parts for any Lee-Enfield No. 4 and/or No. 5 rifles.)

    [ PLEASE SEE THE ATTACHED SIX ( 6 ) PHOTOGRAPHS ]

    Thanks in advance for all of your replies!!

    Ralph Van Buren (45B40-95B40)
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    Last edited by 45B40-95B40; 07-07-2010 at 11:07 PM. Reason: ENGLISH mistakes

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    He certainly has an interesting stockpile, and lots of some items. Presumably he's either been sitting on the stuff for a few decades or has recently obtained a stockpile from someone who did.

    I don't think there is any Suncorite on those sights, just chemically blacked.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

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    New Lee-Enfield parts

    I have brought some parts and I am more than satisfied, especially now that he is breaking up the parts into more manageable numbers. The ones that I have received all appear to be English manufacture and in good condition.

    I would also like to know where be scored the parts from?

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    THANKS Surpmil & Bricari

    Surpmil & Bricari,

    Thanks for your responses. I’ve only corresponded with Craig (Jones) via a few short emails, so I don’t know much about him, his business (R. Jones & Company Blacksmiths Steel Fabrication in Burton Hastings, which I believe is about 75 miles northwest of London), or how he acquired his “stockpile” of Lee-Enfield parts. Perhaps some of the other contributors to this forum know more than I know about Craig and/or his Lee-Enfield parts.

    Surpmil,

    “I don’t think there is any Suncorite on those sights, just chemically blacked.”

    Using a four (4) power magnifying glass, it appears to me that each of the exposed surfaces on each of the No. 4 rifle extractors – except for its polished forward angled concave surface – has some kind of a “black finish” on it that is definitely not a Suncorite finish. That finish looks very much like the “black finish” found on the stamped steel buttplates of the Canadianicon Long Branch No. 4 MK 1 and No. 4 MK 1* rifles.

    However, using a four (4) power magnifying glass, it appears to me that each of the exposed surfaces (including the threaded portion of its slide adjusting screw) on each of the No. 5 MK 1 rifle backsights – except for its polished surfaces – has a Suncorite finish on it. In any area where that Suncorite finish has chipped/rubbed off, there appears to be the same kind of a “black finish” that is on each of the exposed surfaces on each of the No. 4 rifle extractors – except for its polished angled and concave forward surface.

    I’m not that familiar with Suncorite finishes, so I may be wrong.

    Thanks again for your replies.

    Ralph Van Buren (45B40-95B40)

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    I don't know what the black lacquer was that was used on certain parts such as safety catches, bolt heat release catches etc, but it was very thin and might even have been a clear lacquer over some sort of blacking. I think you'll find those sights have a chemical black on them; Suncorite wasn't around in 1947 AFAIK, though of course other similar finishes were. However, I'm not aware of sights ever being painted on the No4/5 as the paints are naturally high-solids and rather thick and the sight tolerances are too close to allow the parts to move freely if painted. Besides, each sight would have to be diassembled to paint the parts that could be painted; too labour intensive for no tangible gain.

    Just my opinion of course.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

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    Suncorite was being used as early as 1944. The Sten Mk.5 was the first production weapon to utilize the phosphate, (Parkerized), and baked Suncorite 259 finish. It's very common to find small parts with Suncorite as it was applied where the part was exposed or to be touched frequently like on the bolt release or rear sights. The LE No.5Mk.1 was also phosphated and baked with Suncorite 259, also starting in 1944. All post 1944 FTR done in Englandicon utilized the Suncorite paint baked over phosphate or Parkerizing. Many weapons with good original finish were degreased, painted and baked too so you'll find them that have the paint finish but no distinct FTR markings.

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    THANKS Surpmil & Brian

    Surpmil & Brian,

    Thanks very much for your responses. So there’s definitely Suncorite 259 or some other kind of baked-on finish on the unpolished exposed surfaces of each of the Lee-Enfield No. 5 MK 1 rifle backsights. Now, can you tell me anything about the stamped “P” – which appears in four (4) different places on each of those backsights – and the stamped “46” – which appears in two (2) different places on each of those backsights?

    Thanks in advance for any additional information you – or anyone else – can give me!!

    Ralph Van Buren (45B40-95B40)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Dickicon View Post
    Suncorite was being used as early as 1944. The Sten Mk.5 was the first production weapon to utilize the phosphate, (Parkerized), and baked Suncorite 259 finish. It's very common to find small parts with Suncorite as it was applied where the part was exposed or to be touched frequently like on the bolt release or rear sights. The LE No.5Mk.1 was also phosphated and baked with Suncorite 259, also starting in 1944. All post 1944 FTR done in Englandicon utilized the Suncorite paint baked over phosphate or Parkerizing. Many weapons with good original finish were degreased, painted and baked too so you'll find them that have the paint finish but no distinct FTR markings.
    Was "Suncorite" the actual trade/brand name of the paint being used in 1944 and was it refered to as such in the literature of the time?

    And Ralph you're most welcome. If I didn't add anything substantive perhaps I provoked a response that did! ;-)
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

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    I don't know Rob. I do know that the formulation is exactly the same but the trade name may have been different back then. Maybe Peter can elaborate.

    Ralph, The "P" stamp is Royal Ordnance Factory, Poole who manufactured the sights and many other components from 1946-49. The "46" is the date of manufacture.

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    THANKS Surpmil

    Surpmil,

    Thanks for adding “something substantive” and for “provoking substantive responses” from Bricari and Brian Dickicon!!

    Ralph Van Buren (45B40-95B40)

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