Pantograph

[tbonesmith]

Does anyone know where some machinery can be found to replicate the markings/serial number on a Fazackerley mag?

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

Just look up 'engraving' in the local yellow pages TBone. Ask if they have and use an old fashioned Taylor Hobson Pantograph engraving machine. If they do, you're home and dry because that's what the factories used.

We used to engrave No4 and 5 magazines with one but they were a pig to hold so we had a jig that the magazine slipped tightly over. It then sat into the engraving table vice so that it was parallel. Then, engraving was simple. We also used a similar jig to hold the Fazakerley made Sterling SMG's that had water soluble serial numbers (that would just disappear at the first sign of rain!)

[Son]

We use a "Gravograph" pantograph. I don't know what the font the letter/ number set is- very ordinary is about all you could say about them.
You'll find a similar type machine in most "Keyman" booths at shopping centres as well as at sports trophy stores.

Peter- just for interest sake, would Taylor Hobson be the same mob that made signalers telescopes in WW1? I have pics of one marked TTH for Taylor Taylor & Hobson...

[Peter Laidler]

Yep, got it in one Son! They are one and the same. Those Gravograph machines are what we used to call 'SCRATCHYGRAPHS' in that they just scratch the detail on the key ring etc with a diamond tipped tool as opposed to spin the engraving cutter. If you look carefully at the Fazakerley engraving, you can see the small circular lines where the spinning cutter 'cuts' Alas, it wasn't put down to cut deep - probably to save time - so the engraving was rubbish

Hows the LAD workshop Son? Time off for Xmas? Tell the Armourers shop that Pete the Pom, ex RAEME 8/RAR sends Xmas greeting and the same to the EME if he's passing through. Arte et Marte

All the best, Peter

[Son]

Yep, got it in one Son! They are one and the same. Those Gravograph machines are what we used to call 'SCRATCHYGRAPHS' in that they just scratch the detail on the key ring etc with a diamond tipped tool as opposed to spin the engraving cutter. If you look carefully at the Fazakerley engraving, you can see the small circular lines where the spinning cutter 'cuts' Alas, it wasn't put down to cut deep - probably to save time - so the engraving was rubbish

Hows the LAD workshop Son? Time off for Xmas? Tell the Armourers shop that Pete the Pom, ex RAEME 8/RAR sends Xmas greeting and the same to the EME if he's passing through. Arte et Marte

All the best, Peter

Our gravograph spins the cutter too. Use HSS tooling and have the brand name tool and cutter grinder for dressing them. The instructions on angles , tip offsets and depths for cutting different materials is quite a read too. Very precise science those cutters. My first attempt just drew the olympic rings on everything! So I know all about the circular marks!

I'll pass on your season's greetings to our boys (total three now including me) "LAD workshop?" not familiar with that... I'm afraid we are a pretty poor sized unit compared to what it used to be- not dealing with anything else but weapons- nearly all the rest is contracted out.

All the best for the season for yourself and yours.
Regards,
Brad.

[Beerhunter]

We also used a similar jig to hold the Fazakerley made Sterling SMG's

Imagine a sub-machine gun factory in that part of Liverpool today? "What you do call a scouser in a suit?" "The Defendant." (Only in fun.)

[Peter Laidler]

LAD. = Light Aid Detachment. Smallish RAEME workshop attached to the main units. I know all about the effects of back-loading everything to the manufacturers. It leads to skill starvation......... Don't get me going. Anyway, have a good one!

From what you describe, the gravograph is virtually a modern Taylor Hobson engraver! I was a dab hand at the engraving machine. I looked on that auction site to see if I could find one. The big taylor hobsons were quite cheap, plenty of spares (still supplied) but a bit big for my now cramped workshop!

[Son]

Ours is very similar to this one. Takes up less than two feet square and sits on the bench- easily carried around. We tried to upgrade it a while back but the replacement unit is not portable. Ours being obsolescent, would have to be returned so I refused to take the new one. Do you want the number? Should be available in the system.

[Peter Laidler]

Lets have all the info you can Son. The manufacturer from the makers plate should be a help. I think that there is something like this in a dark and dusty old cupboard now I remember but was told that it was the scratcygram type. But now I look.............. Mmmmmm, interesting. Will you put it in the post Son? Thanks

I wonder if my powers of write-off ........................