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Thread: No1 Mk3* Mad Hatter crown and other markings

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  1. #1
    Legacy Member mnmkeller's Avatar
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    No1 Mk3* Mad Hatter crown and other markings

    Won in an auction but not in my hands yet. Band has a large top hat style crown with no manufacturer stamp other than a 1918 date.

    Bolt has a large empty U (South African?).

    Rear sight has TBB and a separate crown K5 over B?

    I will pull the pics from the auction and post but I have a feeling this is maybe a peddler or other total mixmaster.
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnmkeller View Post
    Bolt has a large empty U (South African?).

    That is simply the steel type used in the manufacture of the bolt head.

    The "standard" steel used for the bolt head (to be marked U) was :

    ""Iron, Gun, Special"

    The iron must be clean, (free from all impurities (struck out)) and free from small "greys". as the slightest imperfection shows irself when the material is polished and case hardened.

    The ultimate tensile strength per square inch must not be less than 22 tons, with a minimum permanent elongation of 12 per cent. and a minimum contraction of area at point of fracture of 45 per cent.



    If a bolt head is marked "M" than it means that it was manufactured using 'Mild Steel' as a "temporary fix"
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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  5. #3
    Legacy Member mnmkeller's Avatar
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    Ah...one good piece of information. Thanks!

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    Legacy Member Mk VII's Avatar
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    Standard Small Arms receiver?

  7. #5
    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk VII View Post
    Standard Small Arms receiver?
    Good thinking


    Quote Originally Posted by mnmkeller View Post
    Won in an auction but not in my hands yet. Band has a large top hat style crown with no manufacturer stamp other than a 1918 date.
    Does it have the SSA mark on the rear left handside of the body ?
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

  8. #6
    Legacy Member mnmkeller's Avatar
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    I do not have a pic of that area. It will not be in my hands until next Friday.

    Let's presume it does....what does that mean?

  9. #7
    Legacy Member Mk VII's Avatar
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    I wrote this piece some years back, abased on the account in the History of the Ministry of Munitions (and saw it reproduced elsewhere without acknowledgement)



    Standard Small Arms was formed by Mr S J Waring (later Lord Waring, 1860-1940) of the Waring & Gillow concern, together with a Mr Peterson, who was a man of standing in the Birmingham gun trade. They believed that the skills of the Birmingham gun trade were being neglected and could be more fully utilised in the war effort than they were. They planned to make all of the action and the nosecap, less magazines, screws and pins, and organise eight small firms and a number of individuals in the trade (probably outworkers, of whom a great many worked in the trade at that time). The barrels were to be subcontracted to Westley Richards and the wood to be cut by Waring & Gillow and Rudders & Payne (both these firms eventually dropped out). They contracted to supply rifles at 75/- each, which was the same price that BSA was paid. After a year or so it became apparent that the factory would never produce complete arms and it was instructed to produce four items; body with charger guide, bolt, bolt head and trigger guard. The company was to produce 1500 sets of components a week, rising to 4,000 when new machinery was installed. Other firms were contracted to produce less specialist items, the sets of components being delivered to Enfield for assembly in the bayonet shop, production of which was shifted to Wilkinsons and Sanderson Brothers & Newbold.

    The downside of this scheme was that it only allowed for the exact number of components needed. Thus assembly of rifles was held up for want of quite minor items which inexperienced firms were struggling to produce. The scheme was revised in 1916 and became known as the Rifle Components Pool, taking every component which the 'Big Three' could make in excess of their complete rifle production as well as all that Standard Small Arms could turn out, and those produced by the 'peddled scheme' firms. Ordnance could also draw on the pool for repair parts. A considerable stock of components was built up so that any of the Big Three could draw on it if short of some item, and this was done continuously by LSA, and occasionally by BSA, and by Enfield (the pool being on the spot). Standard Small Arms did not attain an output of 2,000 bodies a week until April 1917 and two years after the start of work only 5-6,000 had been produced. By this time SSA were in financial difficulties and a government loan had to be made to keep them going. On June 1st 1918 the factory became National Rifle Factory No.1 with Mr Peterson as superintendent and instructed to prepare for manufacture of components of the Farquhar-Hill automatic rifle, although NRF-marked SMLE bodies were made after this. SSA seem to have turned out 2,000-4,000 bodies a week, depending on the Ministry of Munitions' requirements

  10. Thank You to Mk VII For This Useful Post:


  11. #8
    Legacy Member mnmkeller's Avatar
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    Ok so now I'm really curious to see what I have. There are a few pics with markings on the auction page that I will add when I amona computer and not my phone.

  12. #9
    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk VII View Post
    I wrote this piece some years back, abased on the account in the History of the Ministry of Munitions (and saw it reproduced elsewhere without acknowledgement)




    And, additional research to that shows :

    From the records of the ‘National’ factories :

    The National Factory Scheme

    In August 1914 the state-owned ordnance factories were providing the Army with about a third of its weapons and at this time there were only sixteen firms tendering for War Office munitions contracts:
    WG Armstrong Whitworth & Co. Ltd.
    Harper Sons & Bean Ltd.
    William Beardmore & Company
    Head Wrightson & Co.
    Cammell Laird & Company
    Kings Norton Metal Co.
    Coventry Ordnance Works
    The Projectile Co. (1902) Ltd.
    Dick Kerr & Company
    Rees Roturbo Manufacturing Co.
    The Electric & Ordnance Accessories Co.
    Vickers Ltd.
    T Firth & Sons
    J & P Hill
    Hadfields Ltd.
    Watson Laidlaw & Co.

    The first few months of the Ministry’s existence saw the establishment of an imposing group of national factories so that by the end of December 1915, there were 73 new sites. The new factories would be Government property and the armament firms were responsible for the design, construction and to provide managers to run them as agents for the Ministry. These were in addition to the Royal Factories conceded from the War Office at Enfield Lock, Farnborough, Waltham Abbey and Woolwich. By the end of the war, this array of national factories had increased, both in number and in the variety of the products. Over 218 new or adapted factories .(so, for example as the Standard Small Arms factory failed to achieve its targets it was ‘taken over’ by the Government with the old SSA managing it) were in operation and covered not only every kind of munitions, from cannon and aeroplanes to small-arms ammunition, but also centres for the production of ball-bearings and concrete slabs.


    Birmingham NRF No.1 (Lench Street)

    Management: Standard Small Arms Company Ltd. Products: Farquahar-Hill automatic rifle. Notes: abandoned in October 1918 before production started.

    Birmingham NRF No. 2 (Garrrison Lane)

    Management: Standard Small Arms Company Ltd. Products: Fraquahaer-Hill automatic rifle. Notes: abandoned in October 1918 before production started.



    In my mind the history and convolutions of manufacture and supply, add in the limited production numbers** and it is a very desirable, interesting, rifle.

    Throuhout their exixtence SSA only produced a TOTAL of 275,000 rifles
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

  13. #10
    Legacy Member mnmkeller's Avatar
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    ---------- Post added at 11:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------



    [IMG][/IMG]

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