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    cmp m1 garands tips or advice

    so im going to try to get an m1 garand form CMPicon sometime in the next few mouths. what should i look out for. any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.
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    Last edited by lithgo; 04-06-2011 at 01:15 AM.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    I would say it depends on what you want and what they have. What are you looking for?

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    Thread Starter
    im looking for a good shooter

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    One piece of advice: Spend as much as you can possibly afford and buy the highest grade you can get--but NOT one of the "new, unfired" rifles (those are just too costly). A Service Grade would be the minimum, but a Correct Grade or one of the "Specials" would also be nice.

    Visit the CMPicon Forums and look at the photos of rifles other folks have received. Read their comments.

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    These are some of the considerations I use when evaluating a Garandicon.

    The first set is “serviceability”.

    In the Garand, bore condition is key to how well the rifle will shoot, closely followed by stock fit. If you tell Leon (at the South Store) or whoever else is behind the counter what you want & they will be most helpful.

    First, look at the muzzle & bore. Inspect the muzzle as well as gauging it. The muzzle gauge (bring your own or borrow one from the CMPicon) is used to check how much wear has occurred to the lands in the bore. The gauge reads between 0 and 8, 0 corresponds to .300" (perfect) to .308" (worn slap out). Many new barrels will read between 1 & 2; a 0 is somewhat rare. In WWII, many barrels left the factory reading 3 due to relaxed tolerances. The crown should be free of nicks, burrs or any other defect. Any ding or dent will not only cause inaccuracy but will give a false MW reading since it prevents the gauge from fully entering the bore. Muzzle condition is more important than throat condition so pay more attention to it. The muzzle is more important than the throat in determining accuracy; smaller reading at the muzzle are better. The throat erosion (TE) is also measured between 0-8 and the closer to 0 the happier you will be. Inspect the bore (bring a bore light & magnifying glass for close inspection of all parts) to make sure there is no rust or pits, etc. Once you find a rifle with a good bore, take it to the counter & ask the armorer to inspect it for you.

    These are the things that must be good:
    1. Stock fit. Unlatch the trigger guard & with the metal seated in the stock, grab the rear sight & try to move the metal fore & aft in the stock. There should be no movement; if there is, the action will shift in the stock every shot & accuracy will suffer. A tight stock fit is just as important as a good muzzle with respect to accuracy; a rifle with a perfect barrel can not shoot well in a loose stock.
    2. Headspace. It is supposed to be checked during inspection prior to being sent out for sale but double check; some rifles with improper headspace may rarely sneak through; when the CMP had 1903s I saw some that had not been finish reamed (short headspace).
    3. The op rod. Closely look (magnifying glass) at the tip. It should be round with a nice sharp edge. (I once bought a CMP Garand where the op rod must have been dropped on a concrete floor as one side was flat, which does not happen from any kind of shooting or normal wear; the CMP swapped out that op rod as it was not serviceable; I saw another with an obvious nick on the edge). Also look at the tab; the hooks & the bolt locking lug recess. All these areas should be free from any burrs or excess wear. The armorer will do this for you.
    4. The gas cylinder. Ask the armorer to gauge this for you. They have a special gauge for this which they do not lend out!
    5. The trigger housing assembly. The lugs on the trigger guard should be round or nearly so; when worn, they develop a flat where they latch into the receiver. The trigger guard should latch with some effort.
    6. Inspect all the metal for rust, pitting, damage, etc.
    7. Inspect the stock, inside & out for cracks, splits, missing chips, etc. Garand stocks typically crack at the clip latch area. The USGI fix was to repair the stock with brass pins which is OK if done well.

    If you know for sure you are going to buy a Garand, right now, before you go, find the Orion 7 website (Orion 7 Enterprises Inc.) & order a new op rod spring & clip latch spring. Change springs before you shoot the rifle. When you get the rifle home, take the old springs out & throw them away. Even if you get a rifle that was never issued, the springs are 50 years old. The op rod spring is the only thing that prevents the bolt from hitting the heel of the receiver; a weak or worn op rod spring allows the bolt to hit so hard that it can crack the heel & destroy the receiver. The Army replaced op rod springs every 5000 rounds when the rifle was in service; match shooters replace them every year. The Orion 7 op rod springs are the best made & cheap, about $8. Don't scrimp here; some springs cost a couple dollars less but are not as good. Some sellers offer surplus GI springs for $5 but they have the same problem - they're 50 years old. The clip latch spring also often fails & causes premature clip ejection. It's cheap too, $1. I bought a Service Grade Special and was pleased to find that it came with an Orion 7 op rod spring.


    The second set is “accuracy” Many of these are evaluated & corrected at home, after your purchase. A very few Garands rate “perfect” and those cost $$$.

    There are several factors beside the barrel & stock that determine how well a Garand groups.

    Does the TG lock up tight in the stock. Loose fit = larger groups.

    Does the gas cyl touch the upper hand guard? Yes= larger groups.

    Does the rear of the lower hand guard touch the receiver? Yes = larger groups.

    Is the front sight tight? No = larger groups.

    Does the gas cylinder fit tight? Any movement = larger groups.

    Does the op rod rub the stock or barrel (pass the tilt test)? Yes = larger groups plus probable feeding & ejection problems.

    Is there excessive play in the aperture of the rear sight? Does the sight keep its elevation setting? The sight cover may be loose & need replacing. Excessive play or slippage = larger groups.

    Orion 7 op rod spring installed? Ditch any USGI op rod spring & install an Orion 7 op rod spring.

    Make sure the Gas cyl lock & gas cyl lock screw are tight. Loose = inaccuracy

    Make sure the lower band is tight on the barrel & that the pin is tight. Early pins were solid; these quickly loosened up with use and were replaced with the rolled spring steel pin. These stayed tight since they were, in effect, under spring tension all the time. Quite a few CMP Garands came with the old solid pin. A loose lower band or lower band pin prevents the stock from locking solidly to the barrel and = inaccuracy.

    Check the stock ferrule to make sure it is firmly seated. Loose = inaccuracy

    I had a Garand with a MW of 6+ that consistently shot 3.5" groups at 100 yds. There was no reason to so that except that everything fit well.

    All these don't guarantee you a great shooter but put you well along the way.

    After that, its all appearance & what's pleasing to the eye! Your rifle will need some cleaning & the stock some TLC. Many people like boiled linseed oilicon for the stock but I prefer Tung oil (Formby's) It dries much faster, goes on easier & has the same look after a few coats.
    Last edited by Kirk; 04-06-2011 at 11:40 PM.

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    Kirk, thank you for the great tips. I bought a Garandicon from Orion7 and am extremely happy with it. Knowing what you just noted here will keep those things in my mind as I maintain it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
    These are some of the considerations I use when evaluating a Garandicon.

    The first set is “serviceability”.

    In the Garand, bore condition is key to how well the rifle will shoot, closely followed by stock fit. If you tell Leon (at the South Store) or whoever else is behind the counter what you want & they will be most helpful.

    First, look at the muzzle & bore. Inspect the muzzle as well as gauging it. The muzzle gauge (bring your own or borrow one from the CMPicon) is used to check how much wear has occurred to the lands in the bore. The gauge reads between 0 and 8, 0 corresponds to .300" (perfect) to .308" (worn slap out). Many new barrels will read between 1 & 2; a 0 is somewhat rare. In WWII, many barrels left the factory reading 3 due to relaxed tolerances. The crown should be free of nicks, burrs or any other defect. Any ding or dent will not only cause inaccuracy but will give a false MW reading since it prevents the gauge from fully entering the bore. Muzzle condition is more important than throat condition so pay more attention to it. The muzzle is more important than the throat in determining accuracy; smaller reading at the muzzle are better. The throat erosion (TE) is also measured between 0-8 and the closer to 0 the happier you will be. Inspect the bore (bring a bore light & magnifying glass for close inspection of all parts) to make sure there is no rust or pits, etc. Once you find a rifle with a good bore, take it to the counter & ask the armorer to inspect it for you.

    These are the things that must be good:
    1. Stock fit. Unlatch the trigger guard & with the metal seated in the stock, grab the rear sight & try to move the metal fore & aft in the stock. There should be no movement; if there is, the action will shift in the stock every shot & accuracy will suffer. A tight stock fit is just as important as a good muzzle with respect to accuracy; a rifle with a perfect barrel can not shoot well in a loose stock.
    2. Headspace. It is supposed to be checked during inspection prior to being sent out for sale but double check; some rifles with improper headspace may rarely sneak through; when the CMP had 1903s I saw some that had not been finish reamed (short headspace).
    3. The op rod. Closely look (magnifying glass) at the tip. It should be round with a nice sharp edge. (I once bought a CMP Garand where the op rod must have been dropped on a concrete floor as one side was flat, which does not happen from any kind of shooting or normal wear; the CMP swapped out that op rod as it was not serviceable; I saw another with an obvious nick on the edge). Also look at the tab; the hooks & the bolt locking lug recess. All these areas should be free from any burrs or excess wear. The armorer will do this for you.
    4. The gas cylinder. Ask the armorer to gauge this for you. They have a special gauge for this which they do not lend out!
    5. The trigger housing assembly. The lugs on the trigger guard should be round or nearly so; when worn, they develop a flat where they latch into the receiver. The trigger guard should latch with some effort.
    6. Inspect all the metal for rust, pitting, damage, etc.
    7. Inspect the stock, inside & out for cracks, splits, missing chips, etc. Garand stocks typically crack at the clip latch area. The USGI fix was to repair the stock with brass pins which is OK if done well.

    If you know for sure you are going to buy a Garand, right now, before you go, find the Orion 7 website (Orion 7 Enterprises Inc.) & order a new op rod spring & clip latch spring. Change springs before you shoot the rifle. When you get the rifle home, take the old springs out & throw them away. Even if you get a rifle that was never issued, the springs are 50 years old. The op rod spring is the only thing that prevents the bolt from hitting the heel of the receiver; a weak or worn op rod spring allows the bolt to hit so hard that it can crack the heel & destroy the receiver. The Army replaced op rod springs every 5000 rounds when the rifle was in service; match shooters replace them every year. The Orion 7 op rod springs are the best made & cheap, about $8. Don't scrimp here; some springs cost a couple dollars less but are not as good. Some sellers offer surplus GI springs for $5 but they have the same problem - they're 50 years old. The clip latch spring also often fails & causes premature clip ejection. It's cheap too, $1. I bought a Service Grade Special and was pleased to find that it came with an Orion 7 op rod spring.


    The second set is “accuracy” Many of these are evaluated & corrected at home, after your purchase. A very few Garands rate “perfect” and those cost $$$.

    There are several factors beside the barrel & stock that determine how well a Garand groups.

    Does the TG lock up tight in the stock. Loose fit = larger groups.

    Does the gas cyl touch the upper hand guard? Yes= larger groups.

    Does the rear of the lower hand guard touch the receiver? Yes = larger groups.

    Is the front sight tight? No = larger groups.

    Does the gas cylinder fit tight? Any movement = larger groups.

    Does the op rod rub the stock or barrel (pass the tilt test)? Yes = larger groups plus probable feeding & ejection problems.

    Is there excessive play in the aperture of the rear sight? Does the sight keep its elevation setting? The sight cover may be loose & need replacing. Excessive play or slippage = larger groups.

    Orion 7 op rod spring installed? Ditch any USGI op rod spring & install an Orion 7 op rod spring.

    Make sure the Gas cyl lock & gas cyl lock screw are tight. Loose = inaccuracy

    Make sure the lower band is tight on the barrel & that the pin is tight. Early pins were solid; these quickly loosened up with use and were replaced with the rolled spring steel pin. These stayed tight since they were, in effect, under spring tension all the time. Quite a few CMP Garands came with the old solid pin. A loose lower band or lower band pin prevents the stock from locking solidly to the barrel and = inaccuracy.

    Check the stock ferrule to make sure it is firmly seated. Loose = inaccuracy

    I had a Garand with a MW of 6+ that consistently shot 3.5" groups at 100 yds. There was no reason to so that except that everything fit well.

    All these don't guarantee you a great shooter but put you well along the way.

    After that, its all appearance & what's pleasing to the eye! Your rifle will need some cleaning & the stock some TLC. Many people like boiled linseed oilicon for the stock but I prefer Tung oil (Formby's) It dries much faster, goes on easier & has the same look after a few coats.
    Now that was good information. I am looking at CMP to purchase a Garand. My problem is, I have to order one. To far to drive. Anyone have suggestions when I order one??? Can I do any kind of requesting?

    I am also looking for a shooter.

    bigdog

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    If you want a shooter then order at least a service grade. And request a new CMPicon stock. They fit tighter and the one i shoot shot well after a 5 shot sight in. My rifle SA5844757 shot 9 10 9 9 10 8 8 7 10 10 out of the box at 200yds. 90 out of 100 after almost 10 years of not competing needless to say me very happy. My first and only M1icon at the time was a match rifle given to me and I never shot it that well. Old rifle ME 2 TE 3.5 stock loose, new rifle ME .5 TE 1.75 tight fitting CMP stock. I have not checked all of kirks suggestions but that's the fun of fine tuning your rifle. Just a note if you get a USGI stock you can always buy a competition stock and return it to original when not shooting. I always ask CMP for USGI wood as I have 3 nice new CMP stocks that I use/and will use for comp. Hope this helps.
    For all you members, $30(price subject to inflation) makes you a contributing member. I think this great site is worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    I am looking at CMPicon to purchase a Garand. My problem is, I have to order one. To far to drive. Anyone have suggestions when I order one??? Can I do any kind of requesting?
    I am also looking for a shooter.

    bigdog
    Order a "M1icon Garand, Service Grade Special", either an SA or HRA. See M1 Garand Sales, Item nos. RM1HRASSP or RM1SASSP. They are $895 but worth every cent. You will get a great shooter & more. I have examined dozens of these rifles and typically, all the metal is Perfect - As New, i.e., finish is 99%; no wear on parts; everything just as it was made. What's more, the metal I've seen is "Correct", i.e., all SA or all HRA parts. The stock is new production walnut stocks that fit well. They have just one coat of oil so you will have to add several more to make them perfect. Alas, they do not come coated with cosmolineicon so you miss that part!

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    What are you getting with a "correct grade" and "collector grade". Are these WWII era with correct original barrels ect?

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