1921 Lithgow No. 1 Mk III Unfired

[CINDERS]

Hi Guys,
Had to finish off my '16 Lithgow with a '16 sling and the correctly star marked dumb bell safety and safety catch components so it is 99.8% completed.
So I dug the '21 Lithgow out of the safe as I had promised the forum to take pics of it.

Anyway short story long,
I purchased this rifle and its serial No. to the rifle 07 1921 Lithgow Bayonet with matching
1921 double stitched Lithgow Scabbard (Pic elsewhere of this pair).

The story I got from the dealer this was unfired from the factory (Proofing and sighting rounds excluded of course) anyways he procured it from a returned soldier.
Rumour had it he was weeding his front garden with the bayonet so the dealer asked him a few things and ended up with the rifle and the 07 etc.

So he kept it for @35 years on his rack with the occasional balistol rub down and bore swab (which I continue to do).
I saw it and then began a wait game of 4 years until he decided to start quitting his collection so I snapped this pair up.
I have no idea why the fore woods are in the white but I am not touching them adds to its charm, I have not fired it and the bolt face is unmarked.
You can see the bolt race is not gleaming there is left over gunk on it which I am not going to clean off, on the wrist socket that is my grubby finger mark near the date not pitting.
So it goes to my son on my trip to the great gun range above along with the other 303's I have amassed for him not many but enough to have fun with.
This would be considered a double jewel having the 07 to match dated and numbered to the weapon, and as stated by the previous owner unfired.
Its all I have to go on as the real owner is long dead and there is no wear in the dam thing I mean even the sights slide worm is full of gunk.
It along with my other 2 No.4's and 2 Mk III's the BSA Shirley T will allow my son to hopefully fulfil a long and happy shooting career.

I know there will be personnel that may debunk the fact the rifle is unfired but I am only going on what I have been told and I am not going to strip it down any further than I have just to satisfy the critics.
Sometimes things turn up in our endeavours and you have a find to give back to you all the crappy deals and heartaches from lost causes that crop in our lives chasing the dreams.


Thanks for your time ppl have a good day

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[Homer]

Mate thanks for taking the time to post pictures. It's a very nice looking gun and I won't make any comments regarding the unfired label. The forend and handguards are coachwood so your rifle has had an overhaul or some degree of repairs. I would think it not likely to have had its wood replaced unless its done some work, the question is when was the wood replaced. Can you take a picture or give us a description of the butt. The butt certainly looks well used.

I think also the metal has been refinished so maybe this rifle was refurbished wartime. Does it have a date stamped into the butt like 5/44 or similar?

[CINDERS]

Hi Homer,
I know the unfired bit would have a few heads going but on the reinforce it is stamped 9 '21 there is also nothing else I can see on it that shouts a full FTR. Only it was in there on 5/44 the other 4 is also stamped on the reinforce so it could be 4MD but unclear
If the rifle and Brl had been fully FTR'ed then it would have a different date on it like my other 1916 which has a '43 brl in it I think but quite understandable.

The front band if EFD but this in the replacement of the fore woods is ok as in an armoury I doubt anything follows its originality. If you look at the action like the bolt racer and where the b-head rail is (I will call it that and suffer no doubt LOL) not even shiny.
Anyway here is the pic of the butt also No.ed to the rifle.

Thanks for the reply, I await the good smacking I will get for calling it a bolt head rail ??

[CINDERS]

Homer are you physic or something is this a significant date 5/44 which my rifle bears for ftr's one needs enlightenment in the quest for knowledge as the bayonet grips have Australia on them which I was told only done if the bayonet went overseas....

[Homer]

Not physic but I've had a number of rifles over the years identical to yours that were overhauled around the 5/44. The actions were mostly dated from early 20's and very little was replaced except for the forend. My thoughts were that they were rifles that had had little use, hence retaining the original barrels, but had damaged forends possibly due to not having recoil inserts installed from new. By mid 1944, the production of new rifles was ramping down so perhaps it was a good time to overhaul a few rifles that had minor defects. These are just my thoughts gents.
Apart from the general appearance of your gun, the only indicator that these rifles were refurbished is the date stamped into the butt and it is only a date. Rifles that are stamped FTR, were refurbished between 1950 and 1959/60 and these FTR'd rifles differ in appearance to yours. Most notable difference is , the rifles done in 1944 mostly retained original parts and only those parts that needed replacing were replaced like forends. Rifles that were FTR'd in the 50's were stripped to the action, reparkerised and completely built up into new rifles using new and used parts. Even bolts were replaced in many cases. Old serial numbers on used numbered parts like nosecaps and bolts were scrubbed and renumbered to match the action. I've also seen reused barrels, with old numbers lined out and renumbered. Forends were always new replacements but butts may be new or used. In the case where a used butt was reused, all stamps from the previous rifle were removed and remained bare. The old markings will still be barely visible in nearly all cases. My view is, it is very unlikely a rifle FTR'd between 1950 and 1960 would retain any original parts from new manufacture.
Cinders your rifle may be unfired from its refurbished date, but the fact that it retains the original 1921 dated barrel is not evidence enough that it is unfired. Still plenty of lithgows this vintage and older that retain original barrels. I've had several. Even the grease that may still be present is not an indicator. As Peter mentioned in a recent thread, rifles were prepared for deep storage and thick amounts of cosmolene were applied inside and out. Also had several of those.

[CINDERS]

So why has the 07 pattern bayonet followed this rifle like a lost puppy as there are so many out there that are mis-matched to the rifle they may be attached to, where as mine goes as far as a 1921 dbl Lithgow scabbard I'm pretty cool with what it is as I have no intention as mentioned trying to finish the fore woods nor shoot it.
Seems strange that it being FTR 'ed that the bayonet should be right by its side right through the armoury and to whatever adventures it got up to in the intervening years, still I reckon under a clear night sky in the NW of W.A around a camp fire dropping back some JD & Coca Cola it will make a good conversation piece that one can conjure all sorts of weird things.
I am just the average person who buys magazines, looks at used guns on line and does not have the resources nor contact or the dealers licence to move in the circles that can give a person the edge in acquiring some really unique pieces.
There are so many of us out there one only has to read the threads in Milsurps as we enthusiasts try to build up a modest collection of firearms no matter what type you like they all have their good and bad points like how many of us have suffered a rim over in a speed shoot I certainly have, still we all enjoy the fun, friendships and heck just going to the range with them is an adventure always take spare parts......

Appreciate the extended input I am not interested in monetary value as I have better toys that shoot pointy things far further and faster than the old girls but there is that oh so lovely sound of the SMLE cycling and stripping a fresh round out of the mag and into the chamber and their over all history through all sorts of conflicts yep there is no better thing for history sake for this Aussie.

[Homer]

Cinders your rifle isn't an FTR.

Don't know how rifle and bayonet came together mate. Maybe some bloke 30 years ago was lucky enough to match them up. Seen that happen before. One thing is for certain and that is, your 1921 Lithgow didn't leave the factory like that and I just say it as I see it.

[CINDERS]

Gads I hope it did not leave the factory like that otherwise one could surmise Lithgows QA & QC had done a runner!!!!

[Brian Dick]

The Queensland maple buttstock is the original and the forend and hand guards were replaced in service at some point with coachwood. The QM woodwork wasn't noted for it's inherent strength. The metal looks excellent. It would be Parkerized if it had seen full FTR late or post WWII.

[Homer]

Yes Brian I agree, it would have been parkerised very late in the war of after. Not sure of the process but the metal on this rifle looks refinished as well and is very typical of rifles refurbished at this time.