Trapdoor ?'s pics..

[coneten]

This one seemed different than other examples I have seen. Swivel bands are small U. Unit markings are stamped on trigger assembly tang. Serial number 1696 stamped on left side receiver..the squared off chamber area seems longer. There is 1869 eagle head u.s. stamped on top of trap door. The stock has no cartouches and is long wristed. Side plate is only stamped SPRINGFIELD and there are no case colors anywhere on the rifle. The bore is excellent and the black finish is consistent. Butt plate is stamped U.S. with a 13 above. Feed back is welcome.
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Information

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[coneten]

No Eagle or U.S. or date on side plate...was it scrubbed? The barrel has no SN#. Is the rear sight correct? I am wondering if this is 50-70?

[5MadFarmers]

No, it's put together I think. The .50/70s are in musket stocks which have "plateaus" upon which the lock is set. That has the .45-70 stock. The hammer is from a musket. Action is early .45-70. Stock is early - don't mess with it as it's kind of rare.

On second reflection it appears to be an early .45-70 with a musket hammer. Outside of the hammer it looks fine.

Would need detailed pictures to tell more.

Before attempting to disassemble it, if you intend to, just don't. It's a slow process to not damage that stock.

Interesting rifle.

1869 breech-block?

So early 1873 with wrong hammer and breechblock perhaps. Maybe breech itself is wrong?

Strange. I'd have to think about that one.

[coneten]

Thanks for your valued feedback. I think the rear sight is Model 1873 rifle sight. The SPRINGFIELD stamped on the side plate seems lower than most. The breech block is 1869. I will not attempt to remove the wood.

[coneten]

here are a couple more pics. The unit marking is 3 Co. C 57.
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[m1903rifle]

Probably a "Bannerman" or Stokes-Kirk

[coneten]

I have seen a few of the cut down Bannerman carbines and cadet rifles.

[tbeck]

From your pictures here's what parts it appears to have. Condemned (or non-Springfield) 45-70 lock plate. If these failed an inspection they would be scrapped out partially finished, which yours appears to be. 50-70 hammer, M-1868 50-70 receiver. The barrel is a replacement, since it doesn't appear to be numbered to the receiver, as an M-1868 barrel would be. It could be a 45-70 or a 50-70. M-1868 cam latch assembly. M-1873 carbine rear sight (rifles are stepped to 400 yards), M-1868 cleaning rod. Either an early 45-70 stock, or a 50-70 stock with the flats rounded off around the lock. It looks slim, like a 45-70 stock, but it's hard to tell from pictures. The bands may be early 45-70, but this needs more investigation. 45 cal bands would not fit a 50-70 contour barrel without being relieved in the arch, and 50-70 bands would be loose with a 45-70 contour barrel. Some cadet bands will fit a 50-70 barrel in a slimmed down stock (Remingtons if I recall, but it's been a while).

It's interesting that the hammer lines up perfectly on the breechblock. It shouldn't when using a thin 45-70 lock plate and short shaft tumbler.

It's a "Bitsa" rifle, but it has a lot of interesting bits.

[5MadFarmers]

Stocks. People tend to take them apart too rapidly. It results in chips around the guard and lock-plate.

Other people can cover the method they use but mine involves liberal use of lemon oil and toothpicks. Also with a lot of patience. I soak the lemon oil into the gun around the lockplate and trigger guard. Over a period of days I worry at the edges with a toothpick. Giving it lemon oil to keep it moist. Only when it doesn't seem to be stuck together any longer to I put any pressure on it. Patience is a virtue on that.

I'm too brain fried right now to cover bits. tbeck has already done some of that.

I'll just note that if that stock is .45/70, and it appears to be, it's an early "long wrist" one. Those are getting pretty scarce. The stock would be in demand. In taking the gun apart use great patience to not chip it.

Some of the "non-Springfield" put togethers used shaved CW musket lock-plates. They're marked in various fashions. Removing that lock-plate would tell what it is. Assuming that matters as no matter how it comes out it's not a lock-plate your mother would love.

A picture of the rear sight, taken from above, would prove instructive.

[coneten]

I have just been given a tutorial. I had no idea that there were trapdoor Bitsa's. It is worth the sum of it's parts. Who knows how competent the person was who created this mongrel was. The rear sight is stepped to 1,000 yards. The barrel bands do not show any thinning in the arch. Thanks for all of the feedback.