M1A1 SA Replacement Stock

[oldgrunt]

Hi all,

Would like your opinion as to the originality of this stock. Is this a well stored SA replacement?

Found this stock locally from an older gentleman who I have purchased items from that I am more familiar with. He had bought an M1, a M1 Carbine, spare parts, etc., from the DCM in the early 60s and is now liquidating much of his stuff. The M1 parts he had were like a time machine. I mention this as I have no reason not to trust him. I picked up this folder from him recently. He told me it was also a DCM purchase from about 1962 or so. I know DCM sold these, as I have seen the ads in period publications in my collection. Still, he is getting up there in years, and he may have a memory of also getting this from the DCM, while actually buying it 40 years ago, and it was fake then...I can't remember what we had for dinner last night, so I cannot discount this possibility.

I am pretty good with original stocks, but have not personally inspected an issue replacement stock made by SA. This one looked so good, that I was suspect, so inspected it with my references at hand. I also searched all over the net, but could find no reference pictures of legit SA replacement M1A1 stocks. I bought it, as the old guy has been straight with me, and the key indicators looked right.

It has the correct cast number in the buttplate, the grip is lightly marked SA on the bottom of it. The face of the leather leather looks right. The rivets are old, having the typical green crud that grows along uncleaned old brass. The finish is parkerized. The buttplate screws and spring look correct. The stock is walnut. The grip looks like the later type more comcave grips on earlier production stocks. The mill marks in the interior look like others I have seen on replacement M2 stocks, the repros I have seen lack mill marks. It has the divide in the channel like the issue stocks do, unlike all of the repros I have seen. There are no maker marks, letters or numbers in the barrel channel or anywhere else, only SA on the grip. Finally, the guy is a retired technical writer, and is very organized, so I am assuming this stock looks so nice since he had it stored well all these years.

There are a few things that made me look twice:
-The heads of the screws have been a bit buggered, making me wonder if this was a put together from loose replacement USGI metal parts and a legit SA replacement grip, and an older repro stock, (I have heard of the ones from the 70's but never inspected one).
-The wood is almost too perfect. I would expect to see more handling/storage marks. But like I said, this gentleman is very detail oriented in his daily life.
-The backside of the leather, visible in the oiler slot, is not as darkened as the face of the leather.
-The rivets are marked 7/4 on the heads. I found some posts that reference these as only being used as brake lining rivets. I found a couple references that state some believe army-issued replacement rivets may have had these markings as well.( I am really interested in your feedback on this point).

To sum up:
Do you think this is legit?
Did SA or unit level armorers ever use 7/4 marked rivets?
Is there a pictorial anywhere that shows a real SA replacement M1A1 stock?

Thanks
George

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[frankderrico]

George, welcome to the forum. A lot of knowledgeable collectors here. The leather and the but plate look good to me. I can't tell from your pics if the wire is hollow or not. The leather shows some handling but not the stock. SA stocks that I have are stamped on the front left rail. I don't know the history of SA replacement M1A1 stocks or DCM sales. I'm sure some others will way in to help you out.

Best Regards.....Frank

[oldgrunt]

Thank you Frank! I see you are in central WI. I am from Taylor, near Black River Falls. Moved down here to MO with my family about a year after I retired from the army.
I dis-assembled the wire stock assembly last night. There was old cosmoline under the cap on the bottom. Never saw that on a repro. Additionally, the wood looks a lot like several WWII era new, old stock replacement M1903/a3 series stocks I purchased 20+ years ago that had never been on rifles. I think the gentleman I got this from just bought it and stored it.
I looked again for SA marks other than on the bottom of the grip and found none. I wonder if they only put them on after mating the replacement stock to a carbine, as part of the inspect/repair done at SA at various times.
The stock wire itself is hollow.
If you have pictures of yours, could you post them up? I am especially interested in seeing the barrel channel area to observe mill mark patterns, and the SA markings you mentioned on the left of the stock.
Thank you Sir!
George

[Lt1]

Hi I would remove the recoil plate & look for a third hole in the middle of the wood . Indicating a standard m2 stock miilled to fit the wire stock recoil plate . There should only be 2 holes As for the 7/4 rivets .I believe the 7/4 is simply the size . ie # 7 being the dia and 4 the length . Most rivets are sold in 1/16 lengths as I recall so 4 would be 1/4 .Yes those rivets were used back in the day before brake shoe lining were bonded .I have used the 7/4 rivet to replace worn leather many time in the past , A simple aircraft hand riveter will roll the rivet nicely .

Hand Rivet Squeezer Aircraft Aviation Tools | eBay

[oldgrunt]

LT, Thanks for the tip. I did take it apart and there are in fact only the two holes that should be present, a good sign.
Have you actually seen the 7/4 marked rivets on a known original SA made replacement stock? That is one piece of info that I havent nailed down yet.
Thank you LT

[INLAND44]

Why wouldn't they have used the metal parts from a broken stock and installed them on the new wood? That is apparently what has happened, but it seems like the wood would be marked with at least the manufacturers mark if it was purchased by the U.S. as a replacement. Otherwise I think you have to call it a 'put-together' outside of military custody.

[oldgrunt]

Inland,
I appreciate your input. It is common for military replacement stocks to be unmarked unless assembled to a rifle/carbine during a depot level inspect/repair.
I am really curious if anyone else has seen one of the Korean war era replacement M1A1 stocks that was sold by DCM in the early 1960s.

[frankderrico]

George, it would be interesting to see one of the stocks sold by DCM back in the 60's. Or, does anybody have access to the ads they used and could post them? My M1A1 carbine has an early high wood stock. My camera fell in the lake when I was duck hunting. I'll try and get some pictures tomorrow. If you do a google search you might be able to find pictures of my M1A1 stock. I posted pictures a while back in the thread. Best Regards.....Frank

[shadycon]

At least it does not have the M2 cut! I wouldn't mind having a stock in that good of shape anyday.GK

[INLAND44]

At least it does not have the M2 cut! I wouldn't mind having a stock in that good of shape anyday.GK

Interesting point. Wouldn't all new stocks from the post-war period be able to accommodate the M2 parts?