just bought a P14 - finally

[Iosens]

Hi

kind of new to the forum - at least never posted so far.
Own a few Enfields and others, finally bought "the missing link" - a P14.

Still am somewhat confused about the stages of the furniture.

This one has "Winchester" markings all over it, still has the front (and back) volley sight
but the hand grooves that were supposed to come without the volley sight after refurbishing...
Also don't know about the "J 3"

Have a look and maybe shed some light on this, please. I also read about the "star" (not asterisk MK1*) somewhere on this forum, but I don't remember right anymore.

Also - how can I determine if the front volley sight is a reproduction, or original?

Serial number is 169xxx BTW.

Thanks

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[Patrick Chadwick]

Still am somewhat confused about the stages of the furniture. This one has "Winchester" markings all over it, still has the front (and back) volley sight but the hand grooves that were supposed to come without the volley sight after refurbishing...

To clear up the confusion: you seem to have a perfectly correct stock with volley sights, and therefore the shorter grasping groove. Be glad! You have something rare.

You may have been thinking of the longer groove that was applied when later stocks were made without provision for the volley sights. And the 5-pointed star in a circle is not the Weedon repair star - that was in fact an asterisk, or 6-pointed star, usually applied on the bottom of the stock.

An unaltered Winchester P14 with volley sights. Don't worry - be happy! Even gloat a bit!

Have a look and maybe shed some light on this, please. I also read about the "star" (not asterisk MK1*) somewhere on this forum, but I don't remember right anymore.

Welcome to the forum, to the biggest conglomeration of serious milsurp knowhow on this planet!

I now suggest that you have a good read around the forum - it's all in there somewhere, and I am going to bed!

[Iosens]

Thanks Patrick

That DOES make me happy - I really was not sure what I got when I bought it - but I definitely wanted the front volley intact.

I am still somewhat confused though: I thought that the asterisk like seen on the wood with the mysterious "J 3" (what's that?) was the "improvement mark" i.e. MK 1*.
And if asterisk on the wood is the Weedon star, why are the sights still there?
I searched around and could not come up with a picture of the "Weedon star", can you post one?


Unfortunately I do not find any "Patt 14" on the stock maybe it got sanded at some time. And obviously the disk has been removed.

I am also still not sure about the line of furniture:

Oldest : "Fat boy with no groves and the diagonal bulge between volley sight and action"
Next: " Volley sight and short grooves" like mine.
Newest: " Long groves no volley sight"
???

I have seen nice tables with serial numbers and dates for my No4 - is there anything like it for the P14?

Can you give me a price range of what this gun should run for?

[A square 10]

part of your confusion lies in that 'oldest'-'newer'-'newest' breakdown , the 'fatboy' stock was attributed to eddystone , one of the three mfgrs [also remington & winchester] producing these simultaneously , each made there own and marked them , they did not interchange parts , production was fairly short ....once contracts were fullfilled the plants changed over to model 1917 rifles for US contracts ,

there was a replacement stock made in scotland for wheedon repair services without the volley sight dial position , but not all needed replacement , those that did not had their dial arm removed [and the rear arm as well ] were suposed to have the post/mount for the dial ground , be aware not all went through the service - yours [and mine] seem to be ones that escaped it ,

the mkI* designation had to do with a revision to the original bolt head locking lugs which were found to be lacking , very few mkI rifles are out there most all are mkI*

[Patrick Chadwick]

Dear Iosens, please do not be offended, but you need to get some P14 knowhow before you get more confused by mixing up fragmentary information. "Fat boy" stocks were early Eddystones, not Winchesters.

I have seen nice tables with serial numbers and dates for my No4 - is there anything like it for the P14?

Alas, no!

You urgently need "The Pattern 1914 and US Model 1917 Rifles" by Charles R. Stratton, from North Cape Publications, ISBN-882391-29-2.

And if asterisk on the wood is the Weedon star, why are the sights still there?

Probably because there is no asterisk on the wood of your rifle. It has never been Weedoned or FTRed. Now please make a photo of the backsight and post it here, so that we can all see if you've hit the jackpot - and if you had the book, you would know what that is. A photo of the receiver ring would also be informative.

So while I am sleeping, you have got time to order that book !!!

[A square 10]

the grasping grooves differed between remington and winchester , but all were made simultaneously in the contract period , perhaps this will help - this is the eddystone fatboy stock

[Iosens]

Hi Patrick

Thanks again, Patrick and A square 10,

you are absolutely right, my "wisdom" is purely extracted though tidbits from forums and other internet sources, it's hard to
put the complete image together.
I did not get - until now - that the fatboy was only the Eddystone creed.

Thanks for the book, tip - I will get this one, I already have the Enfield book from teh same series I noted.

I will take some more pictures, but it might take me a day or two.

[mannparks]

iosens, congrats on your new p14 looks good but when you get time shoot us some more pics.--charles

[Iosens]

So
here are some more pics, I guess all looks good, except for the non-matching and sanded stock.
Bolt matching, bolt lugs short (0.62 ''), grasping grooves asymmetric.
Still do not understand the " * J 3 " below the grip. (see first post). Could not find any numbers or stars except what you see here.
(Happy to do a full shot if you like, too. Weather was just crappy here today.)

Looking forward to your comments.
I don't dare to take the furniture off yet to see more, never done it.

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[Patrick Chadwick]

Well it looks to me as if you have a P14 MkI*.
The star is the upgrade mark from the MkI, and the left locking lug should therefore be 0.725" long.
But you write that it is 0.62(5) long, which is the length of the original MkI.
Something is not right here - could you please check the bolt lug again?

The stock is clearly non-original, and appears to have been re-used more than once.

P.S: please note that the battered condition of the front barrel band, also on the inside edge, does not match the smooth edges and face of the fore-end. The band has come off a different rifle to the stock.

There also appear to be markings on the underneath of the barrel* - visible in the same photo (4th in your post). Something that ends in PA ?? A photo of these markings would be useful, as they might give a clue as to re-import or arsenal makeover.

The surface of the rear volley-sight (the fold-down peep sight on the left is much smoother than on the neighboring parts, such as the bolt catch. Because of the relatively exposed position, I would expect at least the same amount of wear here.

I think this is a rifle that has been privately "upgraded" by the fitting of a stock with volley sights. And not all components came from the same donor rifle!

*The mirror-smooth finish on the barrel at this point is also inconsistent with the beaten-up barrel band.