1942 no 4 mk 1 Lee Enfield help

[Issun]

maybe I dont know the right places to look, but I just cant figure out this enfield

I bought it a year ago at a gun show for $180 and the best I can find is that it was made in Birmingham. I bought it as a shooter, and I know its not in the best shape... but I bought it with this in mind, at the moment Im really only interested in any bit of its history that might be obtainable from its various stamps and markings
I have lots of very detailed pictures, and am going to post some that are 15-25% of the original size... if anyone that wants to help me and my quest to figure out part of this gun's story needs more detailed pictures or pictures of another area of the gun please let me know!

oh yes, and as best I can tell the serial number is G2124 ... sorry it wasnt all that identifyable in the picture

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Information

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[Nabs]

I'm going to take a crack at it though Enfields are not my area of familiarity.

$180 for a complete, but mis-matched, No 4 Mk I is actually quite a nice deal you got. You mostly see sporters in that price range.

Wood is mis-matched by the looks of it but I am betting you knew that already.

You have your maker, date of make, and serial number on the left side of the butt socket. It looks to have been partially polished off so it may indicate re-work at some point. I think you are correct when you say the maker is BSA.

There appears to be some wearing on the bluing and patina on some of the metal parts but you have to expect this for a 60 + year old battle rifle. It also gives the rifle character as well and she shows her age quite nicely I must add.

Your No 4 also has the Mark 2 flip up rear sight. From what i have been told, it was quicker, simpler and cheaper to mass produce than the Mark I micrometer sight.

Barrel codes on the underside may lead to sub-contractor marking but I cannot be sure.

Codes, like SNA and CFW, are sub-contractor codes for the part they made and supplied into the system for building No 4s. I am sure you will find codes like this all over your No 4 and her parts along with the military acceptance broad arrows.

Butt plate appears to be Canadian military proofed and probably came off a Long branch made rifle at one point.

Bolt number appears to be mis-matched. I would check the head space just to be sure before firing. Nothing worse than having a case head separation after the first shot and spending half your range time fixing it.

The "P" under crossed flags is a military fire proof mark I believe. I have a similar one on my SMLE. It can also tell you the reigning monarch that was on the throne when the rifle was proofed and also what service branch it belonged too. I think yours, the action anyway, belonged to the Army.

Are you able to get a clearer shot of the left receiver wall where the model and mark designation are ? I am having a difficult time making it out with the sun glare. It looks like your standard "No 4. Mk I".

I hope my interpretation helps you understand your rifle better. The experts on this forum can de-code the sub-contractor markings better than I can. If I am wrong in any interpretations, please let me know as I would hate to pass along incorrect information.

Don't forget to let us know how she shoots when you take her out to the range.

[Issun]

thank you Nabs for that quick reply, this definently gives me some good ammo in figureing out the rest, though I dont want to discourage anyone who already knows the answers....
yes the left side of the reciver only has No 4 Mk 1 on the side, is it normal for it to be etched in like it is? it and the serial number are certainly not stamped...

speaking of ammo, I would love to tell you how it shoots, however the only ammo that I have shot out of it is POF (cleaning thoroughly of course) and it is horrible! it goes click-bang every time. you wouldnt believe how hard it is to not flinch when you can hear the firing pin hit the primer...
I will get back to you on that as soon as I get some decent ammo.

[bearhunter]

That looks like a good honest FTR. That looks to be a Longbranch stamp, just above the serial number. That is an interesting mark on that particular rifle. I've never seen it before. That doesn't mean it isn't a common mark though.
If that rifle was FTRed by Longbranch, there may or may not be any FTR marks, other than to indicate a change of Mark or status etc.

If the bore is as good as the external metal, you got a very good price, as far as Canadian prices go. Brian Dick at BDL could probably give you a lot more information. Do a search and send him a query, if he doesn't answer here. I gather from him that Lee Enfields, though popular in the US, don't command the prices they do in Canada, Europe or Australia.


Don't sand it down please, clean it up with soap and water, then treat it with linseed oil, many advise against Boiled linseed oil. IMHO, your choice. If you want to take out some of the dents, use a wet cloth and a hot iron. That rifle can be made to look and shoot like a real gem. Check out the stickies above, they will give you a lot of information on what to look for as far as stock fit and bedding are concerned. I've learned a lot from those stickies and have turned a couple of dogs into real sleepers. Under the right circumstances, those sleepers can pay for themselves in side bets.

[Nabs]

You are brave to be firing that POF stuff. I have fired some Canadian surplus through my SMLE as well as some hand loads but I still have to figure out my SMLEs point of impact as she is just not hitting the paper consistently.

For No 4s, it appears to be common that the model and mark designation is stenciled on the left side of the receiver with other markings being stamped.

I agree with bearhunter, please do not sand the wood. Work with the rifle and bring her back slowly whilst keeping her history and dignity intact. It will take longer but the personal reward will be so much more for you.

thank you Nabs for that quick reply, this definently gives me some good ammo in figureing out the rest, though I dont want to discourage anyone who already knows the answers....
yes the left side of the reciver only has No 4 Mk 1 on the side, is it normal for it to be etched in like it is? it and the serial number are certainly not stamped...

speaking of ammo, I would love to tell you how it shoots, however the only ammo that I have shot out of it is POF (cleaning thoroughly of course) and it is horrible! it goes click-bang every time. you wouldnt believe how hard it is to not flinch when you can hear the firing pin hit the primer...
I will get back to you on that as soon as I get some decent ammo.

[krinko]

The "B" on the buttsocket is the early mark for BSA/Shirley and would be correct for at least part of 1942. It is not the "LB" monogram of Long Branch.

Too bad about the mismatched bolt, but as long as it shoots OK, there's no harm done.

Here's a photo of my '41 BSA No4, marked in a similar way---




Not sure when BSA switched to the "M47 C"---don't have enough money to buy all the rifles needed for that.
-----krinko

[Issun]

this is all great info! thank you all for your help
no I am not planning on sanding the stock, and I probably wont even touch the finish until I know what Im doing (not likely in the near future), or find someone who does

but if this rifle is an FTR, then how come it wasnt upgraded to mk1* or mk2? and why wernt the sights upgraded?

[Nabs]

It may be the rifle was FTR'd during WW2 work had to be done quickly so they replaced the parts needing replacement...etc and re-issued the rifle. This may also explain the lack of upgrading to any additional Mark designations.

If it had been FTRd post war, you would see that clearly on the left side of the receiver with an electro penciled mark "FTR" and the last two digits of the year it was done. The rifle would also look very minty as well and that has been what I have seen from other 1950s FTRs.

It may also be your rifle saw service during the Korean war so she may have been used hard in that conflict and parts were swapped to keep the rifle serviceable.

Can't be sure but that it seems likely.

[jrhead75]

but if this rifle is an FTR, then how come it wasnt upgraded to mk1* or mk2? and why wernt the sights upgraded?

Mk1* wasn't an upgrade, but rather a wartime manufacturing expedience (some could argue a downgrade), and the Mk2 didn't come into being until 1948 (going by memory here), by which time a lot could have happened to her. Not all rifles got the full FTR treatment before they went to such places as Turkey, Greece, or any other places the British sent aid to...there are a lot of possibilities as to how your rifle got to be the way it is.

Looks like a nice one, by the way.

[krinko]

Why is "FTR" being mentioned in connection with this rifle?
A Factory Thorough Repair is just that---a trip back to a factory and everything made right-----and marked as such.
If the bolt had been replaced in any sort of British capacity, the number on the receiver would match---one way or the other.

The lower end rifles in this CIA import group often had carelessly mixed bolts and other odd things done to them in Turkish service.
"How did this Enfield Rifle get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks."
-----krinko