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  1. #21
    Legacy Member bearhunter's Avatar
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    There are a lot of stories about grinding the mums. One I heard and sounds plausible is that the "Mums" weren't ground until it was negotiated with the Americans. Many of the rifles retained the mums when they were reissued to the Japaneseicon home security forces and police. When the rifles were to be exported out of Japan, either as surplus or as in many cases when they were converted to 30-06 and sent to Korea.
    China was making Type 99 rifles in Manchuria where the Japanese factories had been left intact. The Chinese made them in 7.92x57. I would like to get one of those but in Canadaicon they are non existent. They definitely wouldn't have "Mums".

    Other countries ground off the crests on their rifles as well. Romania, Argentinaicon and Latvia to name a few. It isn't that uncommon. To save "face" for the emperor is as good a story as any and I won't deny it's credibility as I have no direct knowledge. I did talk to an old, now deceased armorer that spent some time in Japan, during the first months of occupation. He told me there were weapons all over the place. Most were destroyed in one manner or another and the bolts were usually missing. Bayonets, were bent etc. The Japanese, stacked and burned their weapons as well. He also said there were thousands of them just laying around, where they had been dropped, when the soldiers were told to surrender. The one thing he did notice, was a complete lack of ammunition. I guess, they had either thrown it away or used it up. There were piles upon piles of hand grenades and helmets as well. Heavier guns like machine guns were just left in their emplacements along with their accessories and many other dropped weapons. He also mentioned warehouses of equipment. Very little food but lots of uniforms and kit. He did mention that they hired Japanese labor to unpack new rifles and deface the crests. They also were told to do the same with gathered rifles. For some reason, pistols and bayonets didn't need to be defaced. Neither were uniforms, helmets, buttons, machine guns, ships, submarines or aircraft. Why not? I couldn't tell you. So many secrets die and the truth is often replaced with fantasy.
    I like the story of saving face for the emperor. It's simple and easy as well as nostalgic.
    Last edited by bearhunter; 03-16-2011 at 07:15 PM.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Legacy Member HOOKED ON HISTORY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2571 View Post
    A serious collector of WWII memorabilia recently told me hew has heard the stories change as the age of those vets got older. In the late 40's & early 50's, guys would brag about how they acquired a trophy in explicit, gory detail. As guys got older, the bring-backs all seem to have been acquired laying in a field or won in card game.

    Can't say I can blame a guy -- who wants to remember unpleasant stuff like that in your old age.
    Real vet story.
    I met a WW2 vet while delivering prescriptions while in college. We would visit a bit each time I delivered. WW2 came up and he asked if I would stay a few min. and he would show me somthing. He got the key to his stor room and inside opened a locker.
    He pulled out a rifle a Nambu ,map and sword and told me the story of how he came by the items as a Pathfinder in the pacific. If I any doubts about the story they wer dispelled when he lifted his pant leg and showed me the scar left by the sword. Having gotten to know this gentelman over several years I have no doubts his story was true. He had no children and I often wonder if he shared the story with whoever he passed the items to. Nice fellow. I miss him.

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