A veteran I never knew was one.

[audiesdad]

You have it all wrong about Audie L. Murphy. He was the most decorated serviceman EVER!

Perhaps!
It depends on your interpretaion of "most decorated" and "ever"

The one individual who is the "Highest and Most" from the Vietnam War is Colonel Robert Lewis Howard who died 3 weeks ago or so. Colonel Howard has, including the Medal of Honor and other valor and non-valor awards, plus all the appropriate devices, a total of 89 awards. This listing includes 2 Distinguished Service Crosses; 4 Legions of Merit and 8 Purple Hearts.


Often people try to take that from Murphy and use Matt Urban as the "most decorated" of WW II. In any case, Matt Urban is not the most decorated soldier of WW2. Urban did not receive the French Legion of Honor or the American Distinguished Service Cross. Please know that my attempt here is NOT to denigrate the military achievements of Colonel Urban or to insult his family. There's no doubt that in having the Medal of Honor, Colonel Urban was a hero, and, indeed, America should remember all her heroes and the price they paid. There are so many recipients more decorated and higher decorated than Colonel Urban. He simply does not belong in the classifications his proponents or the media assign him. He is NOT the “Most Decorated Soldier of WWII”, nor is he the “Most Decorated in American History” — or any variation of the above.

Audie is quantitatively and qualitatively more highly decorated than Colonel Matt Urban, who has 29 awards; his service medals and their appropriate devices are NOT for bravery. Audie has 34 awards, including the Distinguished Service Cross, our second highest medal for valor, which Colonel Urban lacks. Audie also has the higher French award: the Legion of Honor (Chevalier). Audie’s Marksman and Expert Badges are not military awards, per se; they are qualification badges, and therefore not included in the tally.

Here are Audie’s OFFICIAL AWARDS:

DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY OFFICE OF THE ADJUTANT GENERAL AND THE ADJUTANT GENERAL CENTER WASINGTON, D.C. 20314 7SEP 1979

REPLY TO ATTENTION OF:




SUBJECT: MAJ AUDIE MURPHY - Authorization for Awards and Decoration

LIST OF AWARDS




Medal of Honor Distinguished Service Cross Silver Star with First Oak Leaf Cluster Legion of Merit Bronze Star Medal with “V” Device and First Oak Leaf Cluster Purple Heart with Second Oak Leaf Cluster Good Conduct Medal Distinguished Unit Emblem with First Oak Leaf Cluster American Campaign Medal European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal with One Silver Star, Four Bronze Service Stars (representing nine Campaigns) and one Bronze Arrowhead (representing assault landing at Sicily and Southern France) World War II Victory Medal Army of Occupation Medal with Germany Clasp Armed Forces Reserve Medal Combat Infantryman Badge Marksman Badge with Rifle Bar Expert Badge with Bayonet Bar French Fourragere in Colors of the Croix de Guerre French Legion of Honor, Grade of Chevalier French Croix de Guerre with Silver Star French Croix de Guerre with Palm Medal of Liberated France Belgian Croix de Guerre 1940 Palm


There simply is no cutoff point in assigning titles or classifications; it is a personal matter. The Department of the Army refuses to participate in such debates. Army spokeswoman Martha Rudd commented that, “The military does not rank soldiers by numbers or types of medals awarded.”

Carol Cepregi with the Congressional Medal of Honor Society states, “It is not possible to say who is the nation's most decorated soldier,” and adds that “medals are of varying weight and significance and are awarded under differing circumstances.”

The people who decide such unofficial titles are researchers and proponents of a particular individual, whereby inadequate research is oftentimes conducted and conclusions unjustly made.

Someone recently mentioned to me that there would NEVER be another Audie Murphy and I believe this to be partially correct.

I know of no WWII infantryman more decorated and there is definitely none more celebrated.

World War II was a supported war. America knew she must prevent expansion of the Nazi empire. She also realized that she must take action to further prevent massacre and tyranny, such as Germany’s resolve to eradication the Jewish people. And tactically, America had to stop the Nazi overthrow of England. Thus, through the carnage of war, Audie Murphy, the hero, was born.

Vietnam and Korea were not popular wars, but there were many heroes, far more - and highly - decorated than Audie, who came forth and displayed their mettle. But they lacked the notoriety, fame, and news coverage that accompanied Audie’s heroic deeds, and followed him throughout the remainder of his life. In that sense, there will never be another Audie Murphy.

Colonel Urban does not even come close to the following individuals:


Colonel George “Bud” Day, USAF (Ret.)(POW) Vietnam, has 79 medals and devices, which includes the Medal of Honor, Air Force Cross (same as Army DSC), and the Distinguished Service Medal, which takes precedence over the Silver Star (which he also has).

Also noteworthy is Vice Admiral John D. Bulkeley USN, who, in addition to the Medal of Honor has THREE Distinguished Service Crosses and THREE Distinguished Service Medals.

I must also mention Eddie Rickenbacker, WWI, who has the Medal of Honor and SEVEN Distinguished Service Crosses. Originally he had eight, but one was upgraded to the Medal of Honor in 1930. He has the quality but not the quantity.

Regulations now restrict and allow for only one Medal of Honor. If one excludes the 19 DOUBLE Medal of Honor recipients from the Civil through World War I, then the title of "Most and Highest Decorated Soldier in American History" belongs to General Douglas MacArthur. He has the most medaled chest of any combatant in American history with a total of 114 awards. This includes the Medal of Honor, 3 Distinguished Service Crosses and 7 Silver Stars. Yes, many of his awards were because he was General of The Army but our top THREE valor awards cannot be ignored.

Oftentimes, the layperson assumes "Most" means "Highest" and this is not correct. Highest, as the word coveys, is a qualitative reference. With regards to US military decorations, this includes the Congressional Medal of Honor. The use of "Most" is a quantitative reference. In this respect, excluding General MacArthur, Colonel David Hackworth, USA (Ret.) has the numbers. Counting all his medals, valor and non-valor, and all the appropriate devices, he has 89! However, he lacks the Medal of Honor.

There are those who attempt to control titles and conclusions by altering the criteria. For example, limiting it to the top three valor awards (Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross and Silver Star); the time frame (i.e., WWII, Korea, Vietnam); branch of service; or deciding whether foreign awards should be included in the criteria, and then, what values they equate to in the American awards. Part of the difficulty in limiting it to a specific war is the fact than many recipients served in two or more wars. A researcher would need a valid database and a computer to separate the time frames. All of these factors can alter conclusions.

Doug Sterner, Director of the Hall of Heroes Museum in Pueblo, Colorado, stated, "Some individuals may have many rows or ribbons or numerous medals, all of which may be quite low in the PYRAMID OF HONOR. A quantity of medals does not necessarily indicate someone who has seen combat, but may in fact simply denote an individual with many years of service, and many overseas deployments. However, that the sight of multiple rows of medals are generally perceived by the public, who may not recognize the ribbons as being ordinary decorations presented for good conduct or service, and think they are seeing a great hero."

That being said, when one compares Audie Murphy to Matt Urban, Audie continues to reign as the Most-Decorated Soldier of World War II

[Bob Seijas]

In an interview on TV, Lee Marvin said he was in the invasion of Tarawa, actually the little atoll of Betio.

[audiesdad]

In an interview on TV, Lee Marvin said he was in the invasion of Tarawa, actually the little atoll of Betio.

No, Marvin was wounded on Saipan on D + 1 or 2.
Marvin did however claim to have been awarded the Navy Cross at Iwo while on the Carson Show. He made the statement it appears in gest, but it wasn't percived that way and Marvin actually hurt his career somewhat at the time as most of the guys running Hollywood and the movies in that day were WW II vets or at least were loyal Americans during the war years.
It took some time for Marvin to live down that error in judgement.
Also, Marvin was rated 100% disabled vet because of his wounds at Saipan. After he found success as an actor and began to make it big in Hollywood he donated all of his disability pension to the Marine Corps League to help with Marine verterans childrens education.
Quite a guy!

[VET70]

Rear Admiral Eugene B. Fluckey "Lucky Fluckey" was awarded the Medal of Honor and FOUR Navy Crosses! Impressive.

[Mike D]

I received this email not to long ago. Unfortunately, I do not know how to add the pics.

You Would Never Have Guessed !!!!!!

Captain Kangaroo passed away on January 23, 2004 at age 76 , which is odd, because he always looked to be 76. (DOB: 6/27/27 ) His death reminded me of the following story.

Some people have been a bit offended that the actor, Lee Marvin, is buried in a grave alongside 3 and 4-star generals at Arlington National Cemetery . His marker gives his name, rank (PVT) and service (USMC). Nothing else. Here's a guy who was only a famous movie star who served his time, why the heck does he rate burial with these guys? Well, following is the amazing answer:

I always liked Lee Marvin, but didn't know the extent of his Corps experiences.



In a time when many Hollywood stars served their country in the armed forces often in rear echelon posts where they were carefully protected, only to be trotted out to perform for the cameras in war bond promotions, Lee Marvin was a genuine hero. He won the Navy Cross at Iwo Jima There is only one higher Naval award... the Medal Of Honor!




If that is a surprising comment on the true character of the man, he credits his sergeant with an even greater show of bravery.

Dialog from 'The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson': His guest was Lee Marvin. Johnny said, 'Lee, I'll bet a lot of people are unaware that you were a Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima ..and that during the course of that action you earned the Navy Cross and were severely wounded.'



'Yeah, yeah... I got shot square in the bottom and they gave me the Cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi. Bad thing about getting shot up on a mountain is guys getting' shot hauling you down. But, Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew... We both got the Cross the same day, but what he did for his Cross made mine look cheap in comparison. That dumb guy actually stood up on Red beach and directed his troops to move forward and get the hell off the beach. Bullets flying by, with mortar rounds landing everywhere and he stood there as the main target of gunfire so that he could get his men to safety. He did this on more than one occasion because his men's safety was more important than his own life..
That Sergeant and I have been lifelong friends. When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the Sergeant and he lit a smoke and passed it to me, lying on my belly on the litter and said, 'Where'd they get you Lee?' 'Well Bob... if you make it home before me, tell Mom to sell the outhouse!'
Johnny, I'm not lying, Sergeant Keeshan was the bravest man I ever knew..
The Sergeant's name is Bob Keeshan. You and the world know him as Captain Kangaroo.


On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who passed away) on PBS, gentle and quiet. Mr. Rogers is another of those you would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat-proven in Vietnam with over twenty-five confirmed kills to his name. He wore a long-sleeved sweater on TV, to cover the many tattoos on his forearm and biceps. He was a master in small arms and hand-to-hand combat, able to disarm or kill in a heartbeat


After the war Mr. Rogers became an ordained Presbyterian minister and therefore a pacifist. Vowing to never harm another human and also dedicating the rest of his life to trying to help lead children on the right path in life. He hid away the tattoos and his past life and won our hearts with his quiet wit and charm.

America's real heroes don't flaunt what they did; they quietly go about their day-to-day lives, doing what they do best. They earned our respect and the freedoms that we all enjoy.
Look around and see if you can find one of those heroes in your midst.
Often, they are the ones you'd least suspect, but would most like to have on your side if anything ever happened.

Take the time to thank anyone that has fought for our freedom. With encouragement they could be the next Captain Kangaroo or Mr. Rogers.

[limpetmine]

this might make it easier to read...

Perhaps!
It depends on your interpretaion of "most decorated" and "ever"

The one individual who is the "Highest and Most" from the Vietnam War is Colonel Robert Lewis Howard who died 3 weeks ago or so. Colonel Howard has, including the Medal of Honor and other valor and non-valor awards, plus all the appropriate devices, a total of 89 awards. This listing includes 2 Distinguished Service Crosses; 4 Legions of Merit and 8 Purple Hearts.


Often people try to take that from Murphy and use Matt Urban as the "most decorated" of WW II. In any case, Matt Urban is not the most decorated soldier of WW2. Urban did not receive the French Legion of Honor or the American Distinguished Service Cross. Please know that my attempt here is NOT to denigrate the military achievements of Colonel Urban or to insult his family. There's no doubt that in having the Medal of Honor, Colonel Urban was a hero, and, indeed, America should remember all her heroes and the price they paid. There are so many recipients more decorated and higher decorated than Colonel Urban. He simply does not belong in the classifications his proponents or the media assign him. He is NOT the “Most Decorated Soldier of WWII”, nor is he the “Most Decorated in American History” — or any variation of the above.

Audie is quantitatively and qualitatively more highly decorated than Colonel Matt Urban, who has 29 awards; his service medals and their appropriate devices are NOT for bravery. Audie has 34 awards, including the Distinguished Service Cross, our second highest medal for valor, which Colonel Urban lacks. Audie also has the higher French award: the Legion of Honor (Chevalier). Audie’s Marksman and Expert Badges are not military awards, per se; they are qualification badges, and therefore not included in the tally.

Here are Audie’s OFFICIAL AWARDS:

DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY OFFICE OF THE ADJUTANT GENERAL AND THE ADJUTANT GENERAL CENTER WASINGTON, D.C. 20314 7SEP 1979

REPLY TO ATTENTION OF:




SUBJECT: MAJ AUDIE MURPHY - Authorization for Awards and Decoration

LIST OF AWARDS




Medal of Honor
Distinguished Service Cross
Silver Star with First Oak Leaf Cluster
Legion of Merit
Bronze Star Medal with “V” Device and First Oak Leaf Cluster
Purple Heart with Second Oak Leaf Cluster
Good Conduct Medal
Distinguished Unit Emblem with First Oak Leaf Cluster
American Campaign Medal
European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal with One Silver Star, Four Bronze Service Stars (representing nine Campaigns) and one Bronze Arrowhead (representing assault landing at Sicily and Southern France)
World War II Victory Medal
Army of Occupation Medal with Germany Clasp
Armed Forces Reserve Medal
Combat Infantryman Badge
Marksman Badge with Rifle Bar
Expert Badge with Bayonet Bar
French Fourragere in Colors of the Croix de Guerre
French Legion of Honor, Grade of Chevalier French Croix de Guerre with Silver Star
French Croix de Guerre with Palm Medal of Liberated France
Belgian Croix de Guerre 1940 Palm


There simply is no cutoff point in assigning titles or classifications; it is a personal matter. The Department of the Army refuses to participate in such debates. Army spokeswoman Martha Rudd commented that, “The military does not rank soldiers by numbers or types of medals awarded.”

Carol Cepregi with the Congressional Medal of Honor Society states, “It is not possible to say who is the nation's most decorated soldier,” and adds that “medals are of varying weight and significance and are awarded under differing circumstances.”

The people who decide such unofficial titles are researchers and proponents of a particular individual, whereby inadequate research is oftentimes conducted and conclusions unjustly made.

Someone recently mentioned to me that there would NEVER be another Audie Murphy and I believe this to be partially correct.

I know of no WWII infantryman more decorated and there is definitely none more celebrated.

World War II was a supported war. America knew she must prevent expansion of the Nazi empire. She also realized that she must take action to further prevent massacre and tyranny, such as Germany’s resolve to eradication the Jewish people. And tactically, America had to stop the Nazi overthrow of England. Thus, through the carnage of war, Audie Murphy, the hero, was born.

Vietnam and Korea were not popular wars, but there were many heroes, far more - and highly - decorated than Audie, who came forth and displayed their mettle. But they lacked the notoriety, fame, and news coverage that accompanied Audie’s heroic deeds, and followed him throughout the remainder of his life. In that sense, there will never be another Audie Murphy.

Colonel Urban does not even come close to the following individuals:


Colonel George “Bud” Day, USAF (Ret.)(POW) Vietnam, has 79 medals and devices, which includes the
Medal of Honor,
Air Force Cross (same as Army DSC), and the
Distinguished Service Medal, which takes precedence over the
Silver Star (which he also has).

Also noteworthy is Vice Admiral John D. Bulkeley USN, who, in addition to the Medal of Honor has
THREE Distinguished Service Crosses and
THREE Distinguished Service Medals.

I must also mention Eddie Rickenbacker, WWI, who has the
Medal of Honor and
SEVEN Distinguished Service Crosses. Originally he had eight, but one was upgraded to the Medal of Honor in 1930. He has the quality but not the quantity.

Regulations now restrict and allow for only one Medal of Honor. If one excludes the 19 DOUBLE Medal of Honor recipients from the Civil through World War I, then the title of "Most and Highest Decorated Soldier in American History" belongs to General Douglas MacArthur. He has the most medaled chest of any combatant in American history with a total of 114 awards. This includes the
Medal of Honor,
3 Distinguished Service Crosses and
7 Silver Stars. Yes, many of his awards were because he was General of The Army but our top THREE valor awards cannot be ignored.

Oftentimes, the layperson assumes "Most" means "Highest" and this is not correct. Highest, as the word coveys, is a qualitative reference. With regards to US military decorations, this includes the Congressional Medal of Honor. The use of "Most" is a quantitative reference. In this respect, excluding General MacArthur, Colonel David Hackworth, USA (Ret.) has the numbers. Counting all his medals, valor and non-valor, and all the appropriate devices, he has 89! However, he lacks the Medal of Honor.

There are those who attempt to control titles and conclusions by altering the criteria. For example, limiting it to the top three valor awards (Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross and Silver Star); the time frame (i.e., WWII, Korea, Vietnam); branch of service; or deciding whether foreign awards should be included in the criteria, and then, what values they equate to in the American awards. Part of the difficulty in limiting it to a specific war is the fact than many recipients served in two or more wars. A researcher would need a valid database and a computer to separate the time frames. All of these factors can alter conclusions.

Doug Sterner, Director of the Hall of Heroes Museum in Pueblo, Colorado, stated, "Some individuals may have many rows or ribbons or numerous medals, all of which may be quite low in the PYRAMID OF HONOR. A quantity of medals does not necessarily indicate someone who has seen combat, but may in fact simply denote an individual with many years of service, and many overseas deployments. However, that the sight of multiple rows of medals are generally perceived by the public, who may not recognize the ribbons as being ordinary decorations presented for good conduct or service, and think they are seeing a great hero."

That being said, when one compares Audie Murphy to Matt Urban, Audie continues to reign as the Most-Decorated Soldier of World War II

[audiesdad]

I received this email not to long ago. Unfortunately, I do not know how to add the pics.

You Would Never Have Guessed !!!!!!

Captain Kangaroo passed away on January 23, 2004 at age 76 , which is odd, because he always looked to be 76. (DOB: 6/27/27 ) His death reminded me of the following story.

Some people have been a bit offended that the actor, Lee Marvin, is buried in a grave alongside 3 and 4-star generals at Arlington National Cemetery . His marker gives his name, rank (PVT) and service (USMC). Nothing else. Here's a guy who was only a famous movie star who served his time, why the heck does he rate burial with these guys? Well, following is the amazing answer:

I always liked Lee Marvin, but didn't know the extent of his Corps experiences.



In a time when many Hollywood stars served their country in the armed forces often in rear echelon posts where they were carefully protected, only to be trotted out to perform for the cameras in war bond promotions, Lee Marvin was a genuine hero. He won the Navy Cross at Iwo Jima There is only one higher Naval award... the Medal Of Honor!




If that is a surprising comment on the true character of the man, he credits his sergeant with an even greater show of bravery.

Dialog from 'The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson': His guest was Lee Marvin. Johnny said, 'Lee, I'll bet a lot of people are unaware that you were a Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima ..and that during the course of that action you earned the Navy Cross and were severely wounded.'



'Yeah, yeah... I got shot square in the bottom and they gave me the Cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi. Bad thing about getting shot up on a mountain is guys getting' shot hauling you down. But, Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew... We both got the Cross the same day, but what he did for his Cross made mine look cheap in comparison. That dumb guy actually stood up on Red beach and directed his troops to move forward and get the hell off the beach. Bullets flying by, with mortar rounds landing everywhere and he stood there as the main target of gunfire so that he could get his men to safety. He did this on more than one occasion because his men's safety was more important than his own life..
That Sergeant and I have been lifelong friends. When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the Sergeant and he lit a smoke and passed it to me, lying on my belly on the litter and said, 'Where'd they get you Lee?' 'Well Bob... if you make it home before me, tell Mom to sell the outhouse!'
Johnny, I'm not lying, Sergeant Keeshan was the bravest man I ever knew..
The Sergeant's name is Bob Keeshan. You and the world know him as Captain Kangaroo.


On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who passed away) on PBS, gentle and quiet. Mr. Rogers is another of those you would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat-proven in Vietnam with over twenty-five confirmed kills to his name. He wore a long-sleeved sweater on TV, to cover the many tattoos on his forearm and biceps. He was a master in small arms and hand-to-hand combat, able to disarm or kill in a heartbeat


After the war Mr. Rogers became an ordained Presbyterian minister and therefore a pacifist. Vowing to never harm another human and also dedicating the rest of his life to trying to help lead children on the right path in life. He hid away the tattoos and his past life and won our hearts with his quiet wit and charm.

America's real heroes don't flaunt what they did; they quietly go about their day-to-day lives, doing what they do best. They earned our respect and the freedoms that we all enjoy.
Look around and see if you can find one of those heroes in your midst.
Often, they are the ones you'd least suspect, but would most like to have on your side if anything ever happened.

Take the time to thank anyone that has fought for our freedom. With encouragement they could be the next Captain Kangaroo or Mr. Rogers.

I guess you missed post #13 in this thread about Marvin.
Here is what I wrote in part with respect to the story you posted:

"Marvin did however claim to have been awarded the Navy Cross at Iwo while on the Carson Show. He made the statement it appears in gest, but it wasn't percived that way and Marvin actually hurt his career somewhat at the time as most of the guys running Hollywood and the movies in that day were WW II vets or at least were loyal Americans during the war years.
It took some time for Marvin to live down that error in judgement.
Also, Marvin was rated 100% disabled vet because of his wounds at Saipan".

Marvin was however buried at Arlington because as a recipient of the Purple Heart he was entitled to internment there.
Marvin however was not at Iwo nor did he receive the Navy Cross.
With respect to the Mr. Rogers story that never happened either and is just Internet rumor.
Captain Kangaroo was a Marine however serving on a Naval Vessel in the U.S. waters.
To Marvin his wounds were not slight and he was hospitalized from June of '44 to October of '45.
Mr. Rogers never wore a uniform and never served inthe Armed Forces he was however an ordained minister.
Don Adams ("Get Smart") was a Marine who served at Guadalcanal and was wounded there and awarded the Purple Heart.
Likewise, so did Jonathon Winters having served in the South Pacific as did Brian Keith ("Family Affair) of Hollywood fame. Keith I might add was belatedly awarded the Purple Heart and Air Medal,
Thanks!

[Mike D]

I looked it up and you are correct. Lee Marvin was full of it (why would anyone do such a thing!), Captain Kangaroo joined to late to see any action, and Mr. Rogers was in fact the kind, gentle man that he prtrayed and never served.