Smoothing up Garand trigger

[Sights]

I agree Sights, and having the entire weapon isn't a bad idea at all, but I, personally, have never found much variation in trigger geometry (pull weight) between mounted and unmounted triggers. I certainly usually double check by mounting up a unit to one of my own "tight" bedded rifles, but since I virtually always stop honing at a smidge under 5 pounds (still plenty nice and light considering a 3+lb first stage take-up), there is much less danger (as in zero) of going "under" safe/legal pull weight.

Cheers.
Have a great 4th of July

Sights

[Gus Fisher]

Hugh,

I don't mean to be critical and maybe it is the way you describe it, but I've been trying to figure out what you mean by the 3 1/2 pound second stage trigger pull. Do you mean the second stage is that much heavier than the first stage? The reason I ask is because you already mentioned the lightest trigger pull you do is 4 3/4 lbs.

As to the trigger pull feeling not that much different in and out of a rifle - sometimes you may not feel much difference and sometimes there is a huge difference. A lot has to do with how much pressure is required to close the triggerguard. If it goes down tight from either from a tight wood stock or a glass bedding job, then the difference is much more significant. If the stock is pretty loose, then you usualy don't feel a whole lot of difference.

There are a couple more reasons to ensure you have the whole rifle when you do a trigger job. If the top of the trigger binds on the stock, that will change the trigger feel remarkably and usually for the bad. If you are dealing with commercial stocks, you may not realize the trigger pull will go full auto when put in a rifle if the stock distance between the receiver and trigger mech is too great as it has been on many commercial stocks in the past. A trigger can go light or heavy by just locking the housing in a stock.

I admit I'm much more sensitive to a trigger's "feel" because I had to work so many of them for high level NM competitors. Most people would not BELIEVE the ways they describe what they feel and what they want. Most people who say they want a "crisp" trigger actually don't want that because a crisp trigger is a bit hard. Not very many folks shoot that kind of trigger well because a true crisp trigger is a bit hard before it lets off, though there are a few I've known over the years who liked that. Some folks like more roll than others. Some folks wanted as much roll as found on some European sporting arms, though again that was rather uncommon.

For all these reasons and even more, I don't do trigger jobs without the whole rifle.

[Gus Fisher]

Oh, one more thing. When I was the Shop Chief at Quantico, one of my Armorers from THE Marine Corps Rifle Team came up to me and told me he and the other two armorers could not satisfy one shooter on the team. So I told him to have the shooter drop by the shop and for him to be there when the shooter came in. After talking to the shooter, I knew what he wanted was an immense amount of roll on his trigger by the way he was describing it. So I picked out a WRA Garand hammer and did the trigger job in about 20 minutes. Then I handed it to the shooter and told him I thought that was what he wanted and if not. let me know. He felt it three times and then said, "PERFECT!" and he started to walk off, but I stopped him and had my Armorer get a good feel of the trigger so he knew what it felt like. Then the shooter went off happy as a clam.

My Armorer was stunned. He told me all three of them had worked that trigger three or four times each and no one could satisfy him. I told him that about 20 years before we had a few shooters on the Team who shot triggers like that when I first came up on THE Marine Corps Rifle Team as the junior Armorer. Because even then I noticed things like the differences between WRA hammers and other hammers, I noticed the trigger pulls they liked the best had those WRA Garand hammers in them. The WRA Garand hammers are made the same as the very early SA hammers and had the different style of hammer hooks and a very slight difference in tolerances. So I used to keep WRA Garand hammers separated so when I had shooters who wanted that kind of trigger over the years, I could do the trigger they liked. We picked out another half dozen WRA Garand hammers and I told him to take them and separate them and put them on the Shop Van for those kinds of triggers.

After that, I had all my Rifle Team Armorers come in for about 4 hours of instruction on fine tuning triggers. Most of them knew most of the stuff, but they all learned a trick or two. Believe it or not, about an hour out of that was talking about what the shooter described and the other three hours was how to do the trigger so it would feel that way.

[AKA Hugh Uno]

I don't mean to be critical and maybe it is the way you describe it, but I've been trying to figure out what you mean by the 3 1/2 pound second stage trigger pull. Do you mean the second stage is that much heavier than the first stage? The reason I ask is because you already mentioned the lightest trigger pull you do is 4 3/4 lbs.
*******

bas-askwards, sorry. 1st stage heavier than second stage.

[Gus Fisher]

Hugh,

OK, I think I get it now, but you didn't have it bas-acwards. There is more weight in the second stage than the first stage. The second stage is the actual trigger pull and the first stage is only a safety feature.

Something many people don't realize is that it is a very good thing to put a full length hammer spring in when doing a trigger job. NOT an "extra power" hammer spring mind you, but a full length G.I. spring. Some of those "extra power" commercial hammer springs have caused some bad problems in rifles and I don't use them at all. I don't have the blueprints handy, but I think they called for a G.I. hammer spring to be 2 3/16" long at maximum for both the Garand and M14. What I have always done is use a hammer spring that is at least 2 1/8" long for two main reasons.

The first reason is the longer spring gives you faster lock time. That means from the time the sear is released until the gun is fired, there is less time when you use the longer spring. That means the shooter has less of a chance to go off target from the time he releases the sear till the gun fires. Fast lock time is better for shooting in virtually every gun from muzzleloaders to modern ones.

The second reason is one most people have never thought about in a Garand or M14 trigger. When you have a heavier first stage trigger pull from the longer spring, there is less noticeable difference when pulling the second stage. That makes you THINK the actual trigger pull of the second stage is even lighter than it actually is. As such, it actually helps you shoot the rifle better.

[mack]

I want to thank all those who responded to this question. I have learned enough not to rush into this job and I won't.

What I built was a 620XXX receiver from the North Store with some parts I have saved. I have a complete WRA trigger group I came upon somewhere in the last ten years, a 3-55 SA barrel, a new gas cylinder from the fellow on eBay that used to have USGI parts, a newly-made Chinese buttplate since I wanted one that looked OK but wouldn't matter if it got set on the ground and beat up a little and finally a broken stock I repaired out of Anniston's very best $10 broken stock box and new Dupage handguards that came last week from Arizona. The handguards were great, BTW.

The rifle is complete and the Schuster nut came yesterday from Midway, so that is the next install as soon as I put on my RA NM op rod. Since I am not a competitive shooter yet, I can work along on this rifle and get the results I want without a fear of failure.

Hugh, thanks to you and to Gus, as always, your insights are invaluable. Many thanks and a very happy Fourth of July to all who contributed and who are reading this.

[jeff hamerstone]

You people are something else. The M1 Garand was built for the battlefield. If you want a smooth shooter go out and spend the money for a Weatherby or some other Uppie rifle.

[AKA Hugh Uno]

You people are something else. The M1 Garand was built for the battlefield. If you want a smooth shooter go out and spend the money for a Weatherby or some other Uppie rifle.

I guess Mr. HammerTones has never heard of either the National Matches, or John C. Garand Excellence in "COMPETITION" matches. I guess this also means that we should all be perfectly happy with an 8lb trigger pull.

Little hint Jeff, a decent trigger makes shooting an M1 Garand MORE FUN and groups SMALLER. If you aren't interested in either, don't worry about it.

Geez-Louise.

A non sequitur (pronounced /ˌnɒnˈsɛkwɨtər/) is a conversational and literary device, often used for comical purposes (as opposed to its use in formal logic). It is a comment which, due to its apparent lack of meaning relative to what it follows,[1] seems absurd to the point of being humorous or confusing.

[jeff hamerstone]

u no who or dan shapiro which is it anyway. I've about had it with this bull**** fourm if you would spend more time at the range and less on the keyboard we would all be better off.

[Gus Fisher]

If one is used to a good tuned trigger, it is real easy to get spoiled by them. Yes, it does make it easier to shoot the rifle well and that means you can get more of the accuracy the rifle has to offer.

If your standard trigger pull is good enough for you, then there's nothing wrong with shooting the rifle that way either.