Another Buy the Gun, Not the Story but a 1911

[Bayonetman]

Quick note - essentially this same question has been posted on another forum for those who are on both and are thinking they have seen this before.

I have been offered a Model 1911 (serial number 340469) with a story about it having been carried by a Sergeant in the 150th Infantry. The 150th was broken up on arrival in France and few if any of the members saw any active combat.

As I am not a gun collector, I am asking for any information that would show that this pistol could not have been bought/stolen from the military in say 1919. According to my copy of Clawson's Collectors Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols which is the only reference I have, it appears to be correct for a mid 1918 production pistol. One informed gentleman on the other forum said that it appears that it was shipped to Bush Terminal in late June 1918 for shipment overseas, along with several thousand others.

The barrel has the correct appearing H and P proofs, the same H on the top of the slide over the firing pin retainer. H and R on the top of the frame around the disconnector, no G but I am told this is not unknown in this time frame. Eaglehead over S8 inspector mark.

The finish is mostly gone with a blue/brown patina remaining on most parts and some small areas of pitting. Certainly not a pistol for the serious collector, but I like things like this that show use and wear as long as they are not "fooled with". Was this pistol in the so called Black Army series?

One of the things that bothers me is the odd "stripes" on the slide stop/release and the safety. Very unusual wear pattern if that is what it is.

Any comments or suggestions of what to look for will be welcomed.

Information

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[Johnny Peppers]

Was this pistol in the so called Black Army series?

There really wasn't a series called the "Black Army". As the U.S. got into WWI there was pressure put on Colt to speed up production of the Model 1911. In order to save production time the metal finish was left much rougher, and the blueing took on a dark almost black color rather than the usual blue. The "black finish" morphed into "Black Army" and became a variation to some collectors. Almost half of total Model 1911 production had the sub-standard finish, and even though the serial number might put it in the black finish production, if the pistol lacks finish it certainly couldn't be called "Black Army".

[Harlan (Deceased)]

I know it's not a pristine 'collector', but I like it too Bayonetman.

If you can get it for a price you're comfortable with I'd get it.

Aren't those 'stripes' only what's left of the original finish in machine marks?

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Bayonetman -

Unless I'm not looking at what your concern is -
Here's close-ups of the machine marks on my 1911A1 if it helps.

[Bayonetman]

I have to agree that the "stripes" on the safety may be related to the machine marks as they do tend to follow the lines. Not so sure on the slide lock but may also be uneven wear based on high and low spots. I understand that the wartime finish did not wear very well.

I have made an offer (trade as I have no cash to spare due to medical bills) and it looks like I may get it. Whether the attribution to the Sergeant is true or not probably never be answered, but I still like the pistol and can shoot it without fear of possible damage to the finish. I do enjoy the "veterans" for what very few firearms I still have.

I have added my newest photo. I am still playing with my new camera and photo editing software. The pistol is much darker than shown in the photos, but if I make it as dark as it really is, the marks disappear and it just lacks detail.

[Sunray]

"...could not have been bought/stolen from the military in say 1919..." Hi. It's been rode hard and put away wet, but stolen from the military isn't an issue. Nobody will be looking for it 90 years later. Lots of 1911's were sold off as surplus.
"...the odd "stripes"..." Those are just wear and tear marks.
"...blue/brown patina..." Some rectal orifice likely mucked with that. Chemically in all likelihood. It's rough, but I've seen worse. If the price is right, buy it.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

I didn't realize at first who you were. I just checked your profile. Thanks for the outstanding web site about bayonets. It's awesome. I've learned a TON of things from your web site and saved a lot of money by knowing what I was looking at.

Kudos!

Good luck with the 1911. I almost bought one in near the same shape because I could afford it and I thought it still looked pretty good. I only have the one 1911A1, but everyone needs at least one!