Brit veterans prefered SMLE to N0.4 rifle

[Bindi2]

I believe the P1907 bayonet was not sharpened in service so I think you'd have a hell of a job trying to take a hand off. I was also under the impression that bayonet training involved thrusting with the point of the bayonet, parrying and clubbing with the butt


The No.4 rifle doesn't really appear to have been issued in great numbers to active theatres of war until D-Day from the photographic evidence I have seen. Apart from Orde Wingate, does anyone have any photos of the forgotten 14th Army, armed with No.4's?

There is a photo of Aussies sharping bayonets in New Guinea. Big wet stone wheel foot pedal job. The picture is titled sharping bayonets

[Thunderbox]

In UK service, bayonets are/were kept blunt in peacetime, but then sharpened by Divisional order as part of battle preparation. This happened as late as the run-up to the Iraq war in 2003. The "thrusting" design of the '07 means that sharpening has no great effect on its performance, which is probably why so many were never sharpened. Modern bayonets such as the British SA80 type are intended to be also used in a "slashing" stroke (in addition to their modern use as wire cutters or general purpose combat knife), and therefore benefit from sharpening.

[BushyFromOz]

There is a photo of Aussies sharping bayonets in New Guinea. Big wet stone wheel foot pedal job. The picture is titled sharping bayonets

And sure enough there they all were. An entire acre of a bueatiful green meadow flanked by rubber trees was filled with Australian soldiers, each making final preparations for the long haul ahead. As White noted "their shirts were off and their backs were suntanned, rippling with muscle. They had set up Bren guns against surprise strafing - an automatic precaution that marked them as veterans. Some were singing, some writing letters home. One group had brrowed a small grind stone and were sharpening their bayonets, slouch hats pulled rakishly down and their eyes bright and reflective"
KOKODA - Peter Fitszimmons, p249

[Peter Laidler]

I asked an old pre-war Armourer about this a couple of years ago and he replied that the No4 made Armourers lives easier except for the fact that spare parts weren't as readily available as they were for the No1 rifle - probably for logistical reasons.

To the soldiers, it didn't matter much because to them, it was just a simplified version of what they already had and the aperture backsight was much simpler and more popular. THere was a mixed fleet at regiment level right up until the late 40's and after that, the regiments that were being disbanded/demobilised after war or immediate post war service were equipped with the No1 rifle while those staying were fully equipped with the No4. That's from a regimental Armourer, the later Stan Ayley

The SMLE/No1 was taught until the 50's and 'introduced' to Armourers up until the Apprentices moved from Arborfield. 'Introduced' meant that they had them, and were taught to strip, assemble and fault find but not a lot more.

[Beerhunter]

Colin Shore has something to say about the resistance to the aperture sight on the No.4 but he showed that a good shot with a No.1 was still a good shot with No.4 - just as soon as they overcame their prejudices. However, I was "brought up" with the No.4 and the the SLR and so you would think that I would be "aperture prejudiced" but I get on fine with the No.1's sights and often do better with a No.1 in some fast and furious competitions.

Anecdotally I have heard that the reason for the No5 and No.9 "Bowie" bladed bayonets was because it was thought that the "Pig Sticker would not be sufficiently "frightening" to a Japanese solder. (Presumably they thought them to be of sterner stuff than the Germans.)

I do concur with the post about using a pig sticker as a mine probe. I would prefer to use a modern probe but second place in my book would be a pig sticker on the end of the Entrenching Tool haft. (It could be little longer but isn't that thought of all mine probes - half a mile would be a good length. :-) )

Finally, my father was issued a No.4 in England before he set sail for India/Burma where on his arrival (in his words): 'They said: " you wont need that" took it off me and gave me a bloody great knife'.

[Peter Laidler]

The intelligence people have made comment recently on events 'in warmer climates' And that regardless of your your religeous doctrine or credo or simply lack of feeling about life or lives in general, the sight of soldiers with bayonets is still a sobering and fearful factor. It tells all that they mean business