home defense

[goo]

oh yeah,
we used them to keep the grass cut.great fun.
...
they don't work too good backwards, though...
...
http://www.vietnamgear.com/Imagevwr.aspx?img=Clay1.jpg

[gunner]

...and then use M79 grenade rounds against moles. Yeah great garden-culture
only missing the garden gnomes for the peaceful look.;-)

[tmark]

I guess it was in the 80s that the Glasser Safety Slugs came on the market. The advantage with the Glasser is that the projectile(s) go no farther than the intruder and not out your walls into your neighbor's house or into your neighbor. That, possibly, could seriously restrict the amount of rapport you may want to have with your neighbor.

A popular book that needs reading before you shoot any intruder in your home is: In the Gravest Extreme by Asaad Mayoob (sp). I think he is the author. Politely, ask the intruder to wait while you skim-read through relevant chapters. Offer him a beer and some chips during the interim.

You just can't, legally, shoot someone who enters your home. You got to retreat to the farthest area of your home (exhausting all the intruder's efforts to neutralize you until you can legally shoot). I know some may think this is impossible to do if you are in a motel/hotel room.

And once the threat is no longer there, you must give the intruder safe passage to exit. That means if he puts his weapon down or backs off, he is no longer a threat to you or your loved ones and if you shoot him, YOU are in deep do-do! He, too, is under the protection of the law. I bet you've been told that if you shoot him inside your home and he manages to get outside, drag him back in by his heels. I'm skeptical about that working in my favor.

Also, if you shoot an intruder, no criminal charges may be brought to you, but you are open to civil lawsuits by the intruder's survivors, another hell for you to undergo for gosh knows how long.

Then there are those stupid after-effects like you being charged for discharging a firearm within town/city limits, etc., etc. etc. And if your handgun is not registered, you are just as much a criminal (committed an illegal act by not conforming to handgun laws) as the intruder who entered your home uninvited.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that the use of EXCESSIVE force on the intruder is frowned upon by our courts. You may slip by with using a .357 (that caliber was once considered excessive if law enforcement people used it on duty instead of the .38). So, please do use discretion if you own a M60 machine gun, bazooka, 37 mm anti-tank cannon, or low megaton bomb. The criminal's defense lawyer possibly could use that in behalf of his client if it comes to his mind during the court proceedings.

The criminal just might have more rights than the homeowner may realize when push comes to shove.

Your home is not your castle. You only live there and pay the mortgage.

I realize this all sounds ridiculous; but what I have described is not far from wrong, unfortunately.

The point I'm trying to make is that you just can't shoot someone who breaks into your home and that's the end of the story; life goes on as if nothing happened.

Do take a legitimate , certified gun safety/home defense course offered by qualified law enforcement instructors.

[Sunray]

"...the difference between a 357 mag and a 30 cal carbine..." Rifle or handgun? Bullet velocity and pressure. Close, but not the same thing.
The .357 is primarily a handgun cartridge, the .30 Carbine is not. Even though the carbine round can be.
.357 rifle, 110 grain load, max vel, using H110, is 2398 fps at 37,200 cup,.
.357 110 grain handgun, H110 load, max vel is 2078 fps, 37.200 cup.
.30 Carbine, 110 grain, rifle, max vel, using H110, 2106 fps, 36,500 CUP.
30 Carbine, 110 grain, handgun, max vel, using H110, 1685 fps, 36,500 CUP.
No semi-auto .357's though.

[BHP]

Today, 01:10 AM #13
tmark
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Last Online:
Today 01:31 AM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 51
QM Rating: 0% (0) For Home Defense, some things to consider:

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You just can't, legally, shoot someone who enters your home. You got to retreat to the farthest area of your home (exhausting all the intruder's efforts to neutralize you until you can legally shoot).

Your home is not your castle.

Some states have the "castle law", as in your home is your castle. Retreat is not required to apply deadly force when your home is illegally entered.

[us019255]

"...You just can't, legally, shoot someone who enters your home. You got to retreat to the farthest area of your home (exhausting all the intruder's efforts to neutralize you until you can legally shoot). I know some may think this is impossible to do if you are in a motel/hotel room..."

If your state doesn't have a castle law, work to get one. Also work on getting rid of criminal empowerment zones, and registration laws. These kinds of discussions make me glad I decided to retire to MT where it still is the land of the free!

[TDH]

IMHO the 12 ga is the best home defense weapon and you don't need buckshot (it can overpenetrate thin walls) #4 bird shot will work quite well. Over penetration to the neighbors should usually be considered a bad thing though I have had a few in the recent past that it could have been considered a community service. (such as the child molester or the drug lab people)

The state of Ohio has a castle doctrine law. Our conceled carry laws used to put the burden of proof on the shooter. It was up to the good citizen to prove that it was necessary to shoot the thug that was beating the old lady trying to cash her SS check or the monster trying to rape the 12 year old. Thankfully some of the more dragconic parts have been changed.

It is still true that it would be better to use factory ammo and not handloads in your carry piece. Preferablly the same loads used by your local LE agency. That way if the procecutor tries the overly deadly load ploy you can call a local LE officer to the stand and have him testify as to the loads that are issued to them. If it's good enough for the cops it's good enough for the citizens.

Just a suggestion Tmark, you need to move out of the socialist state you live in or vote out the politicians that gave you registration laws.
During the Clintonista regrimethey wanted you to retreat as far as you could and call the cops. Leave your home if possible and leave your castle to the bad guys. That was bull puckey then and it's bull puckey now. When imminent danger is seconds away the cops are minutes away. Protect yourself.

When Injustice Becomes Law
Rebellion Becomes Duty
Thomas Paine

[us019255]

"...It is still true that it would be better to use factory ammo and not handloads in your carry piece..."

Standard, and good advice. Personally I carry factory in my around town pistols. When I go into the wilderness, I use either 10mm or 45 super handloads. I figure if I am confronted by a female moose or griz I want the extra punch. My defense in the unlikely event that the confruntation would be with a 2 legged preditor, is that the loads were for griz, it was just unfortunate that my life was threatened by that person. I suspect that even a city jury could understand that.

By the way, I do acknowledge that 12 bore and slug is much better for dangerous game. The problem is that it is hard to carry a 12 bore 100% of the time. There was an incident proving this within the last month. The 12 bore was in camp while the camper foraged for wood. He will recover.

[jimb16]

The energy is related to the mass times the square of the velocity. The lighter carbine bullet is traveling about twice as fast as a .357. The carbine actually delivers something like 20% more energy than a hot .357 150 gr slug.

[gunner]

Good combination with a soft tip bullet. With FMJ-bullets your opponent can eat some rounds till he gets anglewings.

Gunner