Presentation M1's - Looking for pictures

[apothegm]

Anyone have receiver pics of presentation carbine? Closeups of area behind the rear sight and in front of the bolt would be very helpful.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Mike Henning]

Why??

[apothegm]

I have a mystery Inland with no serial number behind the rear sight and no evidence of grinding or tampering. I'm about to take it in to the local BATF office and would like to take it with me when I leave. The area in front of the bolt has been ground down and I thought it might have been a presentation piece, but I'm curious as to what might have been obliterated from that front area. Pics of other presentation carbines might give me a clue.

[wtmr]

Picasa Web Albums - marcus - NPM from OGRAM It has new ATF serial number stamped on left side of receiver below the woodline

[BrianQ]

I have a mystery Inland with no serial number behind the rear sight and no evidence of grinding or tampering.

It sure does have evidence of grinding both in the front and the rear.

Now ask yourself one question.

Why would a company make a presentation carbine and remove their own name?

[apothegm]

Hi Brian - I'm not convinced that the area behind the sight has been altered. The question I have asked myself and am asking the board, is, why did someone go to so much trouble to grind off -

U.S. CARBINE
CAL .30 M1

[BrianQ]

Not convinced. Okay, how many Inland receivers in the sub 50,000 serial number range have you compared your receiver to come up with the determination the roll stamps were not ground off?

The evidence of grinding is present at the front of the receiver and the shape of the receiver behind the rear sight has been altered on yours. Both indicate the roll stamps were ground off.

Inland made more presentation carbines than all the other manufacturers combined. All of them had the Inland name and special serial numbers in the normal location as well as the front receiver ring markings.

[Milsurp Collector]

Underwood presentation carbine (not mine)

Hi Brian - I'm not convinced that the area behind the sight has been altered. The question I have asked myself and am asking the board, is, why did someone go to so much trouble to grind off -

U.S. CARBINE
CAL .30 M1

With 1911 pistols serial numbers and other markings were sometimes removed by civilian owners to try and hide the US Government Property status of the firearm The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site - Serial Number

I hope you didn't get that carbine from someone in a different state. While it is legal to own a firearm that never had a serial number, a firearm that has had its serial number removed or obliterated is another matter:

§ 178.34 Removed, obliterated, or altered serial number.


No person shall knowingly transport, ship, or receive in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered, or possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.


[T.D. ATF-313, 56 FR 32508, July 17, 1991]

ATF - The Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618

[apothegm]

Thanks for the quote on the ATF regs - I'm hoping that the key word there is 'KNOWINGLY'.

Brian, I'm not challenging you knowledge or experience. I bought the Riesch book less than a month ago and have no other carbines to compare this one to. I'm looking to others who have knowledge and experience they are willing to share.

However, the area ahead of the bolt, under magnification, has obvious grinding striations that are absent from the area behind the sight.

I've taken several new close-ups of the area behind the sight. Would you be able to post a pic or two of the same area on an unaltered sample so that I might be able to see the difference in shape that you speak of?

The new pics are at - Picasa Web Albums - PeteLuckel - Carbine_02

thanks - Pete

[wtmr]

in those same regulations there is a section that pertains to if you "have" a gun with serial or name obliterated or removed. It details that you can apply for a new serial at your local ATF office. They will not put it on for you but they have to inspect it before to determine if has been used in a crime, then they if satisfied it has not been will help you get new number issued. Then they give it back to you and call you with a new number that is then registered in your name. Then you have to bring it back to them to see that number has been applied. There is no charge for this. Then the gun can be sold in interstate commerce. I have had it done to two carbines now. One that has never been applied is ok to but if gun looks ground on its a technical issue and is subject to interpretation by someone not of your choosing.