Subcaliber ammo any idea what it is

[DRB]

DRB
These Sub-Caliber Cartridges are based on the .30 Cal Army case (30-40 Krag). “They were designed to be fired from sub caliber barrels mounted within or on the outside of the main artillery gun tube”. The first of these sub-caliber cartridges were developed in 1902. Some had enlarged primers to be used with the standard artillery firing pin and some had 0.317 dia Berdan primers. Some had typical .30 Krag projectiles, but starting in 1924 the some of these sub-caliber cases were loaded with the 1924 National Match 172gr., gilding metal-jacket, boattail bullet. This loading was adapted in 1925 as the Cartridge, Sub-Caliber, Cal..30, Model of 1925. Beginning with Lot 30, (FA 28), M1ball bullets appear to have been used.

These cartridges were designed primarily for the sub caliber tube used in the 3-in. seacoast gun.

During 1927-27 a quantity of Model 1925 sub caliber ammunition was released to shooters thru the DCM as a substitute for Cal. .30 Ball, M1898 Krag cartridges, which at that time were not available.

All of the above is from “History of Modern U.S. Military Small Arms Ammunition” by Hackley, Woodin and Scration, Vol. I. This volume has a lot more information on this cartridge, I have given you just a bit of this information.

DRB, there is a illustration on page 93,, very similar to yours but it was loaded on Mar 20, 1923 and is from Lot 20

Any one with even a passing interest in U.S. Military small arms, should have all three volumes. Vol. I & II are available, Vol. III is finished but not yet printed.

Added note: this ammunition was available thru WWII.

45B20

Thanks for the information so they are Krag ammo. The 3 inch seacoast usage makes sense as there used to be all kinds of Forts around here gaurding the entry to Puget sound. I got a box of regular Krag ammo from the same guy that was loaded in 1910 by Frankford Arsenal and a box of 30 model 1906 loaded in 1920 that is for aircraft use according to the box.

[Rick the Librarian]

DRB --

PM sent.

--RtL

[Rick the Librarian]

I checked with my friend, who is sort of the John Beard of coast artillery. Here's what he said:

I'd have to see an image of an actual round (primer view) to identify if it was used in a 3-inch gun. The 3-inch M1902 and M1903 gun used semi-solid bronze dummy shells with a 30.06 barrel inserted through the middle. Two leaf springs held the sub caliber 30.06 round in the breech end of the barrel. The round included a special primer that would work with a standard 3-inch firing pin. This firing pin was much larger than the standard rifle pin. The gunners would usually load 10-15 sub-caliber rounds at a time for gun practice.

[Dan Shapiro]

Yep, sounds like their 60g .22 subsonic round. Very quiet.

Carteach0: Aguila .22 Sniper Subsonic 60 grain solid

[45B20]

Rick
Remember, this Sub-Caliber ammo is based on the 30-40 case and not the 30-06 case. The box DRB shows appears to be sealed, ie unfired. Hopefully, he has some fired cases.

Hackley, Woodin & Scranton goes thru the problems that artillery size firing pins created with the predecessors (called, Artillery Drill Cartridge) of these M1925 Sub-Caliber rounds. They tried larger primers, they also tried another cup over the primer. The problem was finally solved by using the standard size primer, but made out of monel metal, “designed to function equally well under the light blow of the standard rifle firing pin of the heavy blow of the sea coast gun firing pin”. That resulted in the, Sub-Caliber Cart. Cal..30. With the loading of the1924 NM bullet(Lot 30) the round was called the M1925.

DRB
You should take this over to the cartridgecollectors.org , (home of the IAA). They had a interesting discussion on this round about a year ago and would be very helpful.

45B20

[edlmann]

When I was at the rifle range, I noticed an unfired .22 cartridge. It's case looked like a .22 long but had a bullet larger then the case! My gunsmith said it is a subsonic round (quiet) made by Aquila. There is an A on the botom of the round.

Click here.