American Occupation of Germany & Austria: Police 1911A1's

[Sleeplessnashadow]

I'm looking to contact anyone who has information on the 1911's (and S&W Victory Revolvers) used by the West German police in the American Occupation Zone of Germany post WWII, or Austria post WWII.

I've been researching the U.S. .30 cal. carbines used by these agencies for about 7 years and have a web page at BavarianM1Carbines.com.

I'm preparing a display for the OGCA May 2010 meeting and a following NRA convention. I have acquired a dozen carbines and I'm looking to add a few of the Victory Revolvers and 1911's. After the NRA convention the entire display, guns included, will be donated to the NRA Museum to preserve this part of American history.

An Allied Control Council Directive in Nov 1945 stated the German police could be armed with non-German weapons with markings identifying the agency or type of agency and which Occupation area the agency was located in. In the American Occupation Zone they were armed with S&W Victory revolvers, 1911's, and M1 Carbines.

Areas within the American Occupation Zone in Germany:

Bavaria (marked in English w/type of agency)
-8725 revolvers and pistols, 14,647 carbines*

• Bavaria Border Police
• Bavaria Rural Police
• Bavaria Municipal Police
• Bavaria Forestry Police
• Bavaria Game Warden
• Bavaria Prison Guard

Berlin: American Sector (Berlin star on left side of frame at trigger guard, on carbines located on top of rear sight platform in front of rear sight)
-unknown quantities, carbines were issued 1960 and returned to U.S. Army 1966-1967.

Bremen Enclave (markings unknown)
-1721 revolvers and pistols, 1044 carbines*

Hessen (initials of Hessen and type of agency?)
-4590 revolvers and pistols, 2458 carbines*

• HE-M
• HE-LP?

Wurttemberg-Baden (initials of WB, type of agency, ...)
-4226 revolvers and pistols, 3743 carbines*

• WB-LP-0123 (Landpolizei)
• WB-S-MAN (Stadtpolizei Mannheim)
• WB-S-STG (Stadtpolizei Stuttgart)
• WB-S-other city initials
• possible single stag horn

Railway Police

• Railway Police Stuttgart
• Railway Police Nurnberg

Austrian Agencies

Bundesheer
Bundespolizei
Gendarmerie (circular Gendarmerie name and/or State)

• LGKB
• LGKK
• LKGNO
• LGKOO
• LGKSb
• LGKST
• LGKT
• LGKV

Zoll

• ZW or Zoll Wache

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to identify the markings used by the Bremen Enclave and Hessen. The HE-M is confirmed on the revolvers and some of the carbines.

Someone recommended John Holbrook. Hopefully he'll catch this and jump in here.

Jim
Jim@BavarianM1Carbines.com

*Quantities obtained from:

[OMGUS Civil Administration Division, Bad Nauheim, 08 Sep 1949, Semi-Annual German Police Personal & Equipment Report as of 30 Jun 1949]

[Bavaria Waffenamt inventory report to the OMGB Public Safety Branch 25 Apr 1948]

Information

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[ordnanceguy]

Hi Jim:

I have seen your site before and appreciate the effort that has gone into it.

Concerning your interest in the Victory Model revolvers used in occupied
Germany and Austria I may be able to offer some assistance.
Another collector and I maintain the Victory Model Database, which includes pre-Victory Smiths as well. We have recorded quite a few examples of the revolvers you are interested in.

Let me know what you need and I will be happy to assist. You can email me directly at cflick@NOSPAMseippflick.com and remove the NOSPAM, of course.

Regards,
Charlie Flick