.303Br with Cast/Preliminary Results

[Beadwindow]

Hello Again,

Continuing the practice of reporting on my experiences with cast bullets, this week I'll be providing findings with two Lee Enfields that I fired last Saturday. They were a #5 Jungle Carbine dated January 1945, replete with Ishapore screw and scrubbed markings (the manufacturing date was barely visible). While the finish on the metal was worn, the rifling was great and there were no major dings on the wood. The second rifle was an Ishapore SMLE #1mk3* with GRI markings indicating that it was of pre-independance origin. The rifle looks like it was arsenal refurbed at some point, and had a perfect bore beneath the thick grease preservative. Luckily both rifles seemed clean of copper fouling while being cleaned/prepared to shoot cast.

Similar to the Mannlichers that I tried the previous weekend, loads were prepared with 18grs of H4198, 17grs of H4227 and 24grs of IMR3031. The bullets were Lee 185 Gr with gas checks,sized to .311 and fired with Win LR primers and Winchester cases, except for the IMR 3031 loads that were fired from S&B cases. This week I had my MTM Predator Shooting Rest instead of just resting the forend on wooden blocks like with the Mannlichers. I suspect that I'll be purchasing a heavier rest eventually, since the recoil from my relatively minor loads did tend to move the rifle and rest after each shot, and with open sights it was difficult to tell whether the rifle was sighted back to the precise same aiming point. If I'm doing anything wrong with the rest, please tell me! I was able to get considerably tighter groups later in the day trying to sight in my M305 with a 9x scope at 50yrds, but only because the magnification ensured that I fired at the same aiming point after re-adjusting the rifle after most shots. Incidentally, the B-Square mount that I was using and economy scope will require some Loctite to keep the scope from shifting between groups.

The first rifle fired was the SMLE, which consistently shot about 1 1/2 to 2inches low and a bit more to the right. My first group at 50yds with H4198measured 2.9 inches or 1.8 inches if you counted the best four of five. My second group with H4227 measured 3.3 inches, however with 2 shots very close together and another two close to each other but 2 inches lower, I think that movement of the rifle at some point between shots might have changed the point of impact. My final group with four rounds of IMR 3031 gave a solid 2" group just over 2 inches to the right and about an inch low. Though my groups weren't exactly bragging material, and might have been increased by the factors mentioned, it was reassuring to see bullets clustering fairly consistently with all loads, perhaps approaching what I might be able to get from a .22 semi-auto at those ranges. The one flier in my first group (H4198) and vertical spread with H4227 could have been due to the effect of small charges in large cases, though I'll keep paying attention to any trends to see if that is really the case.

Firing the Jungle Carbine, my first group missed the target completely, though with the bolt removed I was able to bore sight the rifle by raising the sight elevation to 500m. They could probably still be raised a few clicks as the following groups tended to shoot just a bit low. My first group with H4198 was an unimpressive evenly spread 3.3 inches. With H4227 I was able to get a more respectable 2.1 inch grouping. IMR 3031 did alright, with a 4.1 inch group, but 1.9" with the best four out of five. Some later practice of three groups in sitting, kneeling and standing positions suggested that I need some further practice with this rifle and perhaps some more accurate loads if I'm to get it shooting accurately at 100-200m. At least the reduced loads made the Jungle Carbine fun to shoot, though I'd expect better accuracy with the peep sights and a barrel in such good condition.

In conclusion, the cast bullets did decently in the SMLE, though I might want to try the 200m setting, as well as adjust the front sight a bit to the right, otherwise she might shoot to the right of the target at distances beyond
100m. Accuracy was good enough to suggest a decent fit of bullets to bore, and all powders tested did fine. The Jungle Carbine was a different ballgame however and I might try some unsized bullets through her next time (any hints on how to get the gas checks on without the sizer would be greatly appreciated!). Since by all acounts the accuracy of my M95 rifle the previous week was unusually good, I realized beforehand not to get disappointed should I not match that previous week's success. If I find the time to load up the 50 bullets that I currently have available, I might have another report for next week, perhaps through my #4mk1 as well. I might also pick up Alliant 2400 at the range and see how that fares on a later outing.

With Regards,

Frank

Information

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[Badger]

Very educational partner, particularly for a neophyte in this topic area like me....

I learned something from your post .... thanks...

You should bind these posts into an electronic PDF document and we can put them in the technical articles area of the MKL (Milsurp Knowledge Library).

Regards,
Badger

[Beadwindow]

Very educational partner, particularly for a neophyte in this topic area like me....

I learned something from your post .... thanks...

You should bind these posts into an electronic PDF document and we can put them in the technical articles area of the MKL (Milsurp Knowledge Library).

Regards,
Badger

Hi Badger,

I've kept the targets referred to in my posts and might be purchasing a digital camera in the next couple of months to help with posting those as well. If nothing else, I'm sure that a friend could snap the photos for me. Though my next priority is to glass bed and sight in my 9.3mm Husky's before I'm away in August, I'll hopefully also be casting for my 8mm Mausers and .308bullets for some 7.62 NATO and Swiss rifles, perhaps even 7.62x39 if I could find enough brass. I'd be happy to put all of my findings to the purpose that you've proposed.

With Regards,

Frank

[robertbank]

I have pertty much settled on 18.5 gr of 4227 under a Lyman 314299 boolit sized .313 in my Longbranch. Accuracy is excellent considering my eyes aren't what they used to be. AT 100 yds I can keep them in a 4" circle if I do my part. Another load that I like is 16 gr of 2400 under the same boolit.

Take Care

Bob

[ganderite]

I am a bit confused about how you are using the rest. Usually with a sporting type rifle I put my left hand underthe forend and rest the back of my hand on the rest. I aim the rifle carefully for every shot, holding the rifle quite firmly.

Your description makes it sound like you are not aiming after the first shot - but I must be misreading that part.

[Dante]

I am using SR4759 (20.0 gns.) topped with plastic filler under a 210 grain bullet. I use the SR4759 as I already had it on hand to load "duplex" in my 57 Sniders and 577-450 Martini Henrys. These are the first with the filler which weighed 12.7 grns. to fill to within 3/16" of the case mouth. Off to the range when I get a chance. Bullets are from MT Chambers Supply...x-hard alloy with gas check @ 205 grns. and .314" diameter. I believe the bullet is the 314299 from Lyman. Great to see some posts about using cast.

[buckbrush]

don't size your bullets, just lube them. All 6 of my .303's prefer unsized bullets at .314 minimum. I use Lee 180 and Lyman 314299. Just starting to play with a 3 cavity Cramer mold that is a 175 semi spitzer, drops from the mold at .3165 -.317 .

[robertbank]

I was out yesterday and managed to shoot a 1 1/2" group at 100 yds using 18.5 gr of 4227 uynder Lyman 314299 boolit. While I am happy with these results I am going to cast my chamber and if necessary, order a mold from CBE out of Australia to match the freebore of the rifle. Should mention the boolits are water quenched from WW.

Take Care

Bob

[kent9497]

I have been working on cast bullet loads for a couple of Lee Enfield No. 5's for a while now and am making good progress. It would be better if I could get to the range more often though!

I found both guns shot on the outside edge of mediocrity with milsurp ammo giving groups of 4" to 6" at 50 meters. Accuracy improved dramatically with a lapped and Beagled Lyman 314299 with 0.305" nose bore riding section and 0.315" body. After slugging the barrel I found that I have a large groove diameter of about 0.314" so that explains large diameter bullet preference.

So far I have found continual accuracy improvements and have loaded this bullet with: Unique, IMR 4198, IMR 4227, IMR 4064 and IMR 4320. So far the faster powders have given best accuracy with IMR 4198 and IMR 4227 being about the same.

I have also found that Cream 'o Wheat filler has helped accuracy both with and without gas checks.

Looks like your results are similar to mine for accuracy. I find the peeps a little coarse and with my old eyes I am thinking of adding a scope to eliminate my error. Groups are currently running between about 1 1/2" to about 4" at 50 yards but more are in the 1 1/2" to 2"+ range lately.

As a side note, once I found how large the groove diameter was I decided to pull some bullets from factory rounds and knurl them a little larger with a tool I made for other purposes. The original bullets were 0.311" diameter and gave about 6" groups at 50 meters. After knurling they were 0.313" diameter and I think if I could shoot better I would have had one ragged hole at 50 meters. I couldn't believe the accuracy improvement from buckshot pattern to sub 1 1/2".

Kent9497

[10x]

I have pertty much settled on 18.5 gr of 4227 under a Lyman 314299 boolit sized .313 in my Longbranch. Accuracy is excellent considering my eyes aren't what they used to be. AT 100 yds I can keep them in a 4" circle if I do my part. Another load that I like is 16 gr of 2400 under the same boolit.

Take Care

Bob

I use 13 grains of Unique under the Lyman 314299 bullet unsized but lubed with a gas check. This is very close to a max load with this bullet according to the lyman manual. I have found these bullets are more accurate unsized than sized.
I have also found that one martine 303 and two No.4 rifles will cause the bullet to tumble with every cast bullet I have tried. All have bores larger than 0.314".