North American Arms sighting

[koldt]

Part of the situation is, what is the nationality of those who are driving up the 1911 prices? Americans. This not making a bash on anyone.
Americans are the main collectors willing to pay top dollar for premium/collectible 1911s. A non-US gun will not receive the same kind of price, no matter how rare, as a US manufactured gun, by a US collector.

There, I said it.

[Johnny Peppers]

And then there is the case of the .45 Luger built by DWM and sent to Springfield Armory for testing when Ordnance was trying to adopt an automatic handgun. It has been roughly valued in the $1 million range.

[browningautorifle]

I would love to look over one of those first hand!! I've heard about the American Eagle Lugers but we don't get many of them up here.

[Johnny Peppers]

While this is an American Eagle Luger, it is no where close to being a .45 Luger. This is a 1900 American Eagle with the "dish toggles" that were changed to the flat checkered toggle knobs in 1903. The American Eagle chamber marking was added to the Lugers shipped to the U.S. up through the 1906 models.
The .45 Lugers were larger in virtually all dimensions that the standard Luger, and were essentially hand built. No one knows how many .45 Lugers were built as they were not serial numbered, but so far only three are known. Two were sent to Springfield for testing, of which one is still known, and another .45 thought to possibly be the back-up pistol to the two sent to Springfield is in the Norton Gallery in Shreveport, Louisiana.

[Rob Greer]

Part of the situation is, what is the nationality of those who are driving up the 1911 prices? Americans. This not making a bash on anyone.
Americans are the main collectors willing to pay top dollar for premium/collectible 1911s. A non-US gun will not receive the same kind of price, no matter how rare, as a US manufactured gun, by a US collector.

There, I said it.

Hmmm... just how many non-US made M1911 pistols were used by the US military? Unfortunately, we can not count the 105 that were manufactured by North American Arms because they were not accepted by the US Military - largely because of the end of WWI. So, if someone is collecting 1911's with (or without) US Military history, well, just how many foreign guns will they have?

Personally, I love thinking of the NAA's as military pistols, but for the reason stated above (and in many prior posts) I am not 100% correct in that belief. It is simply another variation of a phenominal pistol that was at least intended for US Military use. They are so rare, that there are only about 40 known to exist in collections and museums. Most collectors will never see one in person unless they find a museum that has one on display.

[browningautorifle]

Beautiful Luger Johnny, may I guess that it's yours? Is it 30 Luger or what? Note all parts show special attention to finish. No rough marks here!

[Johnny Peppers]

Beautiful Luger Johnny, may I guess that it's yours? Is it 30 Luger or what? Note all parts show special attention to finish. No rough marks here!

That is one I have had a while, and is .30 Luger. The early pistols had a lot of attention to detail. They were rust blued, and after blueing the inside surfaces were polished back to white where some of the blueing solution may have run down inside. As you probably know, the .30 Luger, or 7.65mm as it was known to the Germans, was a bottleneck cartridge which was necked up in 1902 to make the 9mm Luger cartridge. Usually the straight cartridge is necked down into another cartridge.

[Johnny Peppers]

This is a very strange and hard to explain Luger. It is a Mauser built Luger on a 1942 dated receiver, and is .30 caliber. The pistol is a commercial pistol produced when Germany was trying to turn out military firearms, and from the dated receiver had to be mid to late war. The barrel is a left over from a Swiss contract from the 1930's, and if you look carefully the barrel is marked Kal 7.65. Instead of being stamped, the caliber marking is acid etched. The small parts are strawed in the manner of the early rust blued pistols, and even though the pistol was tank blued, the inside surfaces were polished back to white.
A special thanks to the moderators for indulging me in showing a few Luger pictures.

[mike webb]

Thanks to the moderators too. A beautiful gun is a beautiful gun.
It's not hard to see why the Luger was dropped in favour of the P-38. Too
much intricate machining and hand fitting. Old world craftsmanship at it's best. I wasn't aware Lugers were even turned out in .30 cal. during the war years.
Thanks for the photos.

[Johnny Peppers]

I wasn't aware Lugers were even turned out in .30 cal. during the war years.
Thanks for the photos.

In the mid 1930's the Mauser factory set aside the w and v letter suffix blocks for mostly commercial and contract pistols. Most of the police Lugers are in these serial number ranges, as well as some small contracts. One contract was for Sweden in 1940 which was in .30 caliber with the Kal 7,65 marked barrel which was 4 inch instead of the normal 4 3/4 inch .30 caliber barrel.
The pistol shown above is in the w letter suffix block.