Yet another inheritied M1 Carbine

[Milsurp Collector]

Wow, thanks everyone. I really did find the right forum.

I still have a few questions. Thanks in advance for your patience.

About the parts that I need, I'm looking to restore it back to factory, so I need a bit of help figuring out which parts are correct.

Are there any other good sources of original parts other than eBay?

Gunbroker.com. There are 3 or 4 honest sellers there, including Eddy Yuja who sells under the name 81MM. He has a recoil plate you could use http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=139384822

Stay away from the seller No Guts No Glory AKA m1carbineparts.com. They are two aliases used by the owner of Riverbank Armory. He uses the name "abcleigh" on Ebay, so avoid him there too.

Buttplate - I found the buttplate identification web page. It shows two different buttplates for Inlands. An "early" and a "late". What constitutes "early" and "late"?

Both the square and diagonal patterns were used when your carbine was made.

Swivel and Screw - It's a type 1 band, so I need an original type 1 swivel. Do those ever come up for sale on eBay? (Just the swivel) I did see an original band and swivel that just sold on eBay for $80. Ouch, kinda spendy for just a swivel and screw, but if that's what I have to do, I'll do it.

Most Type 1 bands and swivels you will see for sale online are reproductions, and real ones are rare and expensive. Don't pay a collector price for a reproduction. Consider buying a reproduction band and swivel (~$25) just to get the swivel and screw, so you at least can use the carbine until you find a real swivel and screw (good luck with that!).

Oiler - I've seen some marked IS and II. Is either ok or is one more appropriate?

Either is OK. International Silver stopped marking the oilers for each prime contractor early on, and just marked them all IS.

Sling - I guess that the question here is "C" clips or "D" clips? What is the right color? How about markings? I guess that I want something marked with the year 43?

C-tips were used during World War II, both types were used after World War II. There are a lot of reproduction/fake C-tip slings out there, but real ones turn up on ebay, on the CMP Trader Forum CMP Discussion Forum - WW2 C tip carbine slings and at http://whatacountry.com/carbineslings-wwiiused.aspx

Don't worry about markings or dates on C-tip slings, most genuine ones didn't have markings on them or have lost them by now, and many slings with markings are fakes. Try to become familiar with the appearance of the fabric weave and the metal tips on genuine slings



The D-tip slings are cheaper and work just as well, and are correct for the Korean War and later http://whatacountry.com/carbineslings-vietnamused.aspx

Recoil plate - I'm looking for one marked "DI". There seems to be a type associated with them. Am I looking for a type 1, 2 or 3? Is there any difference in the length of the screw?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=139384822

The screw length was the same throughout production. $2 for the screw at Bill Ricca's M1 Carbine Parts and Accessories

Magazine(s) - Looks like you can't sell these on eBay. What is a good source for original ones? Are there any markings that I should look for? What size? 15?

You can find 15-round USGI magazines at gun shows, gun forum trader boards, and on Gunbroker.com http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=139162144

As for markings, any of these would be appropriate M1 Carbine 15 rnd Magazines

15-round magazines were used during World War II. Both 15 and 30 round magazines were used afterwards. The selective fire M2 Carbine needed the increased capacity of the 30 round magazine. Many 30 round magazines you will come across are repros/fakes, stick with the 15 round magazines.

About the stock...

I'm bummed that there is no acceptance mark on it. Should there have been one?

Yes, but it was often lost when the stock was sanded either during an arsenal rebuild or by a civilian owner. However, I think you should resist the temptation to pay someone to "restore" your stock by stamping a fake/reproduction acceptance mark (cartouche) on it. Putting fake marks on an otherwise genuine carbine is heading in the wrong direction in my opinion. Nothing screams "fake!" like a freshly-stamped and usually not exactly correct cartouche on a 65+ year-old carbine. The aforementioned abcleigh apparently has a bottomless, endless supply of rare I-cut high wood carbine stocks with nice clear cartouches on them, that he sells for big bucks to one-born-every-minute buyers on Ebay.

I followed Cabinetman's instructions on the parallax site about determining finish. It has a coat of poly on it. So as a first step, it's chemically strip it very gently. That has to be done. After that it's try to steam some of the dings and scratches out.

For the finish it, from what I can determine, Inland44 is right. The original finish was linseed oil. But, at the factory, they heated the oil and soaked the stock. I won't be able to do that. Simply applying it with a rag won't get it to penetrate (according to Cabinetman). One suggestion was to cut it with turpentine. Does that sound right? This is going to be babied, so durability isn't a concern.

A good stripper to use is Klean Kutter http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=72&prodid=92 which is designed for use on antiques and fine furniture. It will strip off the poly without harming the wood. You can get it at Home Depot, Walmart, etc.

The vast majority of Inland stocks, including yours, were made by the S.E. Overton Co. (that's what the OI code means) and they dipped the stocks in raw linseed oil as a finish. As stated earlier, you can get raw linseed oil, sold as flax seed oil, at health food stores, Walmart, etc. Organic Flax Oil | Walgreens Official Web Site

Finally, I'm obviously no gunsmith. Does anyone know of someone in the Chicagoland area that is qualified to inspect this and let me know if I'm good to go? After all of this effort, me and the boys are going to have to put some lead down range. A bit of a side note. I have a son who is a combat engineer in the Marines who qualified with his M16 as an expert. He's already challenged me to a shoot off. Wish me luck!

Thanks again for all the help everyone.

The M1 Carbine is a pretty simple firearm, so you should be able to check it yourself. You might want to check the headspace, and for that you will need a bolt tool http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=139222341 and a .30 M1 Carbine Field gauge http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=522178 as a minimum, or the whole set of Go, No Go, and Field gauges. Check the bolt for cracks around the right (bigger) lug



and make sure the extractor plunger is assembled properly



and you should be good to go.

By the way, the bolt will not be held open after the last round with a 15 round magazine.

[ChicagoRob]

Thank you very much MilSurp for the extremely thoughtful reply.

I'm going out of town for a fews and will pick this back up Monday.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

That was an outstanding post Milsurp Collector!

It's great to see someone going to so much work to help a new carbine enthusiast.

[ChicagoRob]

It's been awhile, so I thought I should give an update.

First, thanks again to Milsurp Collector for the excellent response. On his info I started working on the rifle. It's been a good indoor project.

My local hardware store didn't have the KleanKutter, but they did have a gentle Formby's product that worked very well removing the new poly finish without raising the grain. They also had quarts of pure raw linseed oil. (That quart will last me several lifetimes!)

After I stripped it I noticed something strange. The place where the cartouche should be had been sanded very smooth. Too smooth. It's almost like someone tried to remove the cartouche. Ouch.

I gently sanded the entire stock with 120 grit and hand rubbed a 3 to 1 mineral spirits/linseed oil combination on it. It looks great. The wood is beautiful with just a hint of luster.

I do have a question, though. When fully assembled the handguard is able to move about 1/16th of an inch back and forth. Is this normal?

My wife found the original oiler in one of her mother's old jewelery boxes. The finish is almost gone and there are a couple of rust spots, but it still looks great with the C-tipped sling that I ebay'd. The oiler was marked IS in a circle.

I followed Milsurp's instructions and inspected the bolt. It was nasty with crud, but once cleaned, it showed no cracks.

Now for the bad news. I rented a GO/NO-GO gauge set from an online gunsmith supply shop. (They didn't have a FIELD available.) With the bolt stripped, it fully closes on the NO-GO gauge. I guess that it's time to get a FIELD gauge and cross my fingers. (Anyone have one to lend or sell me?) If it passes the FIELD gauge, is it still safe to shoot with modern commercial ammo?

Thanks again everybody.

Rob

[painter777]

The flat spot on the rightside of your stock may have had a Rack Number painted on it, later sanded off when refinished.
The circled P on the bottom of the pistol grip is the original Proof stamp found on early OI stocks.
The K is more than likely a Depot marking.

Your head space problem may call for a replacement bolt. One just a little longer.
Others with more experience dealing with head spacing will chime in.

Some good info here about the gages,

Explanation and use of Headspace Gages needed - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

Welcome to the forum.
We've enjoyed your find.

Cheers,
Charlie-painter777

[rondog]

I do have a question, though. When fully assembled the handguard is able to move about 1/16th of an inch back and forth. Is this normal?

Yep, normal. You don't want a rifle stock to be tight against the barrel, that will affect accuracy. Needs to have some space. A lot of people will want to be able to slide a dollar bill between the barrel and stock.

[ChicagoRob]

I bought a field gauge and the bolt failed to close so I believe that I'm good to go for the few hundred rounds that we'll fire through it.

Reassembling the bolt without the bolt tool was an interesting 2 hours of my life. (1 hour 15 minutes was spent looking for the plunger after it tried to escape.)

Milsurp's reply came in handy yet again. The first time that I had it back together the extractor wasn't working properly, so I checked his instructions and I had the plunger's cutout in the wrong spot.

Thanks again for the help everyone.

Rob

[imarangemaster]

Always disassemble the bolt in a gallon zip lock, even when using a bolt tool. I saves looking for plungers and springs!

[ChicagoRob]

Great tip, thanks.

One nice thing about the Forester Field gauge that I bought is that the bolt does not need to be stripped to be used. Instead of mimicing the back of a cartridge, the back of the gauge is a small post that only contacts a small area around the firing pin so it avoids the extractor. I'll be checking the headspace frequently now that I don't have to tear down the bolt.

On another note, I finally made it to the firing range to test the carbine and the two other firearms my wife inherited. (A 1903A3 w/ a 1903 stock and a 20's Commercial Luger) All three fired well with no misfires or jams.

One thing, though. I have two WWII 15 rnd (R-C & IA) magazines and one 5 round magazine (Unmarked) for the carbine. The five rounder holds the bolt open when it's empty whilst the 15 rounders did not. I can see the difference in the followers. Is it possible to pick up two of the "bolt open" followers and replace the ones in the 15rnd mags? It was nice having that indication of an empty mag and avoiding a dry fire.

Thanks again everyone,

Rob

[ramit]

I haven't tried it, but have heard of others who would cut away the rear ramp on the follower, to make a 90deg ledge to catch the bolt.

I wouldn't do it to the two you have if they are in good - great condition, but get a couple of others from the CMP, and try it to the worse of them.
or
buy a couple fo 5 or 10rnders from the likes of fulton, and try swapping the followers out . I'm pretty sure the 5-10rnders from fulton are "made in the USA" brand with the hold up follower...