Should the M1917 forum title be changed to include the Pattern 14? VOTE INSIDE

[Alfred]

I knew of the .276 Pederson being tested by the US, but thats first I've heard of their testing the .276 British. Makes sense though, since if adopted the rifles and ammo may have been produced here just as the P-14 was.
Cordite was no good for the .276 British and if it had been mass produced they would likely have developed a Pyro-Cellulose loading for it.

The P-17 like the 1903 was a adaptation of the mauser design. The lee Enfield is a updated and improved American design to begin with.

Theres actually next to nothing about the P-14 thats distinctively Enfield, aside from the shape of the grip. The rifle was a complete departure from previous British designs.

Also there are a few mutts out there, P-14 receivers fitted with M1917 bolts and re-bored to 8mm.

[Patrick Chadwick]

I vote for the inclusion of the P14. BTW, no-one here in Mauserland has ever heard of an M1917. But if I say P17, they know what I'm talking about. So much for correct nomenclature!

P14 and P17 (oops!) = One basic design, produced in two different calibers. And about the only Enfield technical/parts connection is that the Enfield foresight blades fit!

Patrick

[Alfred]

I had forgotten that the rifling form of both P-14 and M1917 are distinctively Enfield.
There were Ordnance Officers in favor of adopting the Enfield pattern of rifling for all US arms when tests revealed that the enfield rifling coupled with the lower operating temperature of IMR propellants gave a much longer effective bore life than had been imagined possible at the time.
I believe Julian Hatcher may have a run down on this in Hatcher's Notebook, if not I may find the source again soon.

The shortened P-14 rifles the British experimented with for a time held great promise in creating a much lighter and handier rifle. There were similar shortened M1917 rifles constructed for Chinese troops in the CBI theatre, on a trial basis. The full size M1917 having proven awkward for smaller statured Chinese troopers. In length these were very nearly the same size as the later No.5 carbine.

[Badger]

Ok folks ...

Based upon your voting and on a test basis to see if it works without creating a whole lot of confusion, I've renamed this forum.

M1917 and Pattern 1913/1914 Rifles
(Forum for discussions about M1917 "American Enfield" and British Pattern 1913/1914 Enfield Rifles)

I'll move obvious and appropriate posts from the Lee Enfield Collectors Forum to here over the next few hours.

Hope this works for you guys ...

Regards,
Badger

[JGaynor]

P-13, M1917 and Rifle No. 3 Mk1

[Digger]

P-13, M1917 and Rifle No. 3 Mk1

LMAO!

[A square 10]

im for including it ,

while the P13 , P14 , M17 are in fact a mauser departure from the enfield on the comonwealth side but id have no problem discussing all three in the enfield forum as well ,

its still a fact that the P14 & M17 were in fact produced in three dedicated locations , a great and highly successfull experiment in utilizing commercial contractors to produce military rifles ,

one was a modification of the other upon conclusion of its contract , one cannot really be discussed at length without the other getting mentioned ,

as to the P13 - no problem including them with me even though it was only experimentaly produced at vickers and so few were made that they are a true holly grail item to those of us that collect these

[Badger]

im for including it ,

We did ...

Thanks ...

Regards,
Badger

[RCS]

second from right is a 276 cartridge for the P13 rifle

[Badger]

second from right is a 276 cartridge for the P13 rifle

Goes with this ..

With thanks to Advisory Panel members Lance and Wheaty for their assistance, we've added a new entry to the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here)

Pattern 1913 "Trials" Rifle (.276 in.) (click here) .....

This is a fascinating rifle to study in detail with some interesting oddities noted in the Collector's Comments section of the main Knowledge Libary entry. For example, the long range dial sights are mounted on the left side of the fore-end similar to the original Pattern 1914 rifles, plus a long range back sight is mounted on the left side of the receiver. Note however, that because of the experimental .276 caliber, the dial plate on the Pattern 1913 "Trials" rifle was NOT graduated as part of the original manufacturing process (see pics).

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Regards,
Badger