M10 Ross Question

[GAIRLOCHIAN]

I have a M10 Ross stamped CRB.It has a 25in. barrel.I see in the knowledge forum that not much is known of the CRB mark but I was wondering if these have 25in. barrels.(24.5 from muzzle to reciever ring)Pics on EE forum on CGN.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Badger]

Hi ...

Since the EE on CGN requires "approval" to access, there may be a number of members here who can't see your pic, so I've taken the liberty of reproducing it here to help answer your question.

I trust that is ok....

Regards,
Badger

[Warren]

It seems that a number of the CRB marked rifles were modified on an individual basis. Several were sold off in the early 60's by the Alberta Forestry Service, and many had different barrel lengths. This MIGHT have been due to damaged muzzles or some other fault. I still have one or two that I bought at the time,(in the 60's) and there was a difference in barrel lengths by approx 1 inch. The mind grows feeble with age, but they were issued to the Canadian Rangers who did not take particularly good care of them and this also might explain different barrel lengths....Just my 50 year plus knowledge of the CRB rifles.... Used by Canadian Rangers and the Alberta Forestry Service
***The old curmudgeon......***

[GAIRLOCHIAN]

Thanks for posting pic and the info.

[stoggie]

I had a lengthy discussion on another forum, and David Edgcombe, who wrote "Defending the Dominion: Canadian Military Rifles, 1855-1955" gave me this info:

The Ross rifles were used in WWII as home guard rifles (PCMR). Post war, the Canadian Rangers were formed (1947). Apparently, they were given Ross rifles and they were marked CRB with a serial number. Many of these were shortened, but some survived full length. (Note: all WWII an later service Ross rifles will have a pinned bolt.)

Here is a bit of his post:

Three years ago while expanding the catalogue information on Canadian rifles for the Canadian War Museum, I had the following exchange with Warren(the orginal) who is, in my opinion, the leading Canadian Ross expert.

"I have come across three Ross rifles - two cut down to carbine size, one not - in the Canadian War Museum collection stamped CRB in one or more places. It has been suggested that this indicates issue to the Canadian Rangers, can you confirm?"

"YUP....they are Canadian Rangers, and I have a number of them. The uncut version are the scarce one, as most were cut to carbine length with a number of different sight configurations."

Stoggie;

Here are my catalogue notes fyi. Although its been four years since I have seen them, as far as I can recall the font was the same on all three rifles.

a. Type: Rifle, Ross Mk III
Calibre: .303
Serial No: 817 NS/1916
Markings: Butt right side 11/16" D-arrow-C Quebec cartouche, serial number, RM over 14634 or I4634. Receiver left side stamped 629 over CRB, trigger guard also stamped 629 and barrel ring stamped E.
Notes: Has 30.5” barrel and bridge-mounted Ross battle-aperture backsight. This rifle was issued to the Canadian Rangers authorized by Order-in-Council PC 1644 May 23, 1947. The RM, which has not been positively identified, indicates an earlier issue possibly to the 61st Régiment de Montmagny which evolved into Les Fusiliers de St. Laurent. The significance of the number 14634 or I4634 is not clear as it is far to high to have been a regimental rack number.

b. Type: Rifle, Ross Mk III cut-down
Calibre: .303
Serial No: 227/1916 (the two letters are illegible)
Markings: Butt right side 11/16" D-arrow-C Quebec cartouche, serial number, 38.B/274. Receiver Left side stamped 860/CRB and trigger guard also stamped 860.
Notes: Has 24 1/2” barrel and bridge-mounted Ross battle-aperture backsight. There is a bayonet lug on the nose cap. This rifle was probably professionally shortened prior to issue to the Canadian Rangers authorized by Order-in-Council PC 1644 May 23, 1947. Earlier issue, as a full Mk III, was to the 38th Ottawa Battalion Canadian Expeditionary Force.

c. Type: Carbine, Ross Mk III
Calibre: .303
Serial No: CRB 2792
Markings: Butt right side C-broad arrow (broad arrow inside C) Canadian ownership mark, CRB 2792, which also appears on the left and right side of the receiver and on bolt and butt plate.
Notes: This cut down Mk III rifle has 22” barrel and bridge-mounted Ross battle-aperture backsight. It has a single band and no bayonet lug or nose cap. Although faintly visible but illegible, the original butt serial number has been sanded off but enough remains to indicate that it was originally a Mk III rifle military serial number. The cut back muzzle is rounded off vice flat cut and the barrel is stamped “Not English Make” on the right side indicating that the rifle was in England at one time.

Issue was to the Canadian Rangers authorized by Order-in-Council PC 1644 May 23, 1947.

The first rifle came to the War Museum from the collection owned by one of the authors (I believe F. Dupuis) of the Ross Rifle Story and the other two from other, unidentified sources. This is not definitive but is probably the best that you will ever be to nail down.



Make sure you read all about bolt safty issues before firing - otherwise your rifle may re-arrange your face.....

[Badger]

There's an outstanding article by "PerversPépère ", on Ross M-10 Rifle Bolt Disassembly (click here) and the dangers of doing it incorrectly. It may be found under the Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here) forum of the Milsurp Knowledge Libraries. .........

Also, in the Canada - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here), there's a really nice example of a 1916 M10 Mk. III Ross Rifle (Marked to 16th Battalion CEF and also stamped "CRB").... click here

Regards,
Badger

[Warren]

I believe there were two of the CRB marked rifles in Frank Dupuis' collection. I have a few also, and can photograph the markings when I have a chance. Some CRB rifles were also serial numbered on the metal as well. A small lot of them found their way to the Alberta Forestry Service, not sure how, but till attempt to find out someday..."another project and so little time"
I seem to recall Dave and I discussing the CRB's some years ago.....

[Badger]

Some CRB rifles were also serial numbered on the metal as well.

The one in the library is marked CRB 3006.....

Attachment 773
(Click to Enlarge)

Regards,
Badger

[Badger]

With thanks to Bushwacker, we have updated the "Collector Comments and Feedback" section of the 1916 M10 Mk. III Ross Rifle (Marked to 16th Battalion CEF) entry in the Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here)

He's added some further information about the "CRB" markings found on these rifles.

Regards,
Badger

[K31]

Most of the ROSS rifles I have seen were stamped CRB. One of the few that wasn't was an actual PCMR rifle. Most PCMR's had the M-17 30-06, or the WINCHESTER 94 30-30. I also know of one No. 5 (jungle carbine) that was issued to a ranger in the early 50's. How did that happen!?! I have quite a few pictures of rangers, and they are almost always using the M17. I have also seen pictures of rangers with STEN guns. The M94 WINCHESTER was the most sought after weapon in ranger service. Most old rangers I have spoken with HATED the M17 because of the weight and length. The one ROSS I've seen was minus the bolt, the ranger didn't trust the rifle, so he dropped the bolt overboard, "accidentally" while in his boat. His son in law said that his dad got the only ROSS in the rangers, and was most displeased.