WW1 RIOT GUN on Gun Broker

[thirdherd1965]

Good morning, can someone check the Gun Broker Auction number 141979596 under curio & relic and look at the photos and the description and give me some feedback. There is one picture that bothers me. The one showing the US & Flaming bomb closeup.
I thought that the Ordnance markings on WInchester Riot guns should be on the opposite side of the ejection port?

Serial Number 6138XX

This is the photo that I am refering to...bob

Information

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[pmac]

I had one years ago with the markings like this. It's a nice looking solid frame 97. I wouldn't doubt that it was purchased by the government but as you know, one can purchase hand stamps easily. I would seriously inspect the stampings.

[jmoore]

I'm surely no authority on these markings, but they surely LOOK wrong. I'd have to look at a known correct example to be sure. Not having "hands-on" inspections beforehand keeps me from buying much off the 'net.

The worst part is that it could be a real US riot gun that escaped before that stamps were applied after WWI and then added later just to make it "worth" more.

[HotTom]

From what I can find in both Canfield's and Poyer's shotgun books and the one WWI M97 I have in my collection, the markings are in the correct place for WWI vintage and the flaming bomb is of the correct type (the early ones were smaller with the lines extending only part way through the flame; the WWII version was larger and the lines went completely through the flame). They (including each letter in "U.S.") were hand stamped. As mentioned, many military shotguns were not stamped in WWI. They are more valuable if the stamp is there. If it's a fake stamp, it's a good one.

[Tom Doniphon]

The marks are in the correct place for a WW1 hand stamped Model 1897 trench gun, but they are fake.

[fredh46]

The marks are in the correct place for a WW1 hand stamped Model 1897 trench gun, but they are fake.

Tom, can you share your thoughts as to what you see about these stamps that set off your alarms. So many of us out here are so vulnerable to fakes because of inexperience, any insight you have would be greatly appreciated. The only thing I see is that the appear to be struck too deep.

[Tom Doniphon]

Hello fredh46. The one thing that stands out like a sore thumb is the periods after the U and the S. Real ones don't have them. There are some other subtle differences including the shape of the S and the shape of the ordnance bomb. You really need to look at one that's correct and compare it to this one in order to see the differences.

[jmoore]

This stuff makes me wonder at the logic of paying more for a "marked" weapon than one that left the system before the ID's were applied. I don't think any of my three different martial WWI shotguns has the US/bomb thing- and I prefer it that way!

[fredh46]

Tom...great information...thanks fo sharing that with all of us