Repro No32's....I think they've arrived....

[Roger Payne]

Just this evening got back from what is billed as Europe's biggest Arms Fair in Belgium. Plenty of nice kit there, but at ebay plus prices. One thing I did take a cursory look at was a dud looking No4 T at 2,650 Euros. It was as wrong as a nine bob note, but what I wasn't expecting was to find that the scope was a copy. I know they have been talked about for some time, & I guess it was only a matter of time till someone brought it to reality, but the No32 on this rifle (BSA 1943) was not genuine.

Regrettably I did not have a camera with me & my look was limited as I think the owner may have been starting to feel a little awkward; but for the benefit of other forummers:
The scope appeared to be a Mk2, complete with eye shade.
It was nicely blued & optics were fair.
It was marked up as a Kershaw Mk3 yet dated 1943, & bore a totally incorrect four digit serial number something like 3013 or similar.
The R&D turrets were cast with edges so sharp they were pretty obviously not authentic.

I have no idea where it was made & by whom, but I mention it here as now we've seen one (unless it was made as a one-off by an eccentric genius), others will inevitably start to appear. To anyone who knows even a little about No32's I think it would be easily spotted, & indeed basic knowledge on serial number & Mark ranges gleaned from Peter's books would alert people. However, it perhaps bodes well for bidders on scopes entered onto ebay & other auction sites to insist on some nice clear photo's of markings.

There you go!

ATB

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[neal455]

Blimy!!

[Strangely Brown]

Pecar did a lookalike of a No32 awhile back; I just wonder if that could be the source?

[RJW NZ]

Any idea of the model number for the pecar?There's lots of odd pecars around here.

[Peter Laidler]

Thinking around the houses, I wonder if the emergence of replica No32's will damage or enhance the prices of the real thing. After all, up until now, the maker of a replica No4T has HAD to use a real No32 and in a round about way, kept the prices pretty high. But now, he can replicate the whole thing reasonably cheaply and therefore adjust the prices of real Mk2's downwards.

All depends on the price of the replica Mk2's though............ Food for thought

[jmoore]

One upside might be that some original scopes and brackets get sold to finance a repro build or to maximize profit on put-together rifles, so your chances of finding "orphaned" scopes goes up!

[JBS]

Do you think the items that were incorrect where done so intentionally by the manufacture to prevent criminal simulation ( forgery ) and passing it off as original.

[Roger Payne]

JBS
I may be cynical, but I would have thought the markings were incorrect more likely because these people don't always do their homework properly, rather than due to altruism. If I were doing them & wished to make them accurate copes but unmistakably copies I would have marked them in such a way as to make it blatantly obvious. I suspect this was just bad forgery, a bit like the jumbled pseudo-enfield markings seen on Khyber pass rifles....but I could well be wrong. Just my .02c.

ATB

[Roger Payne]

Peter,
You make a good point. Not really sure what effect it'll have on the prices of genuine ones. Speaking as someone with a few still in bits in my garage, I hope the prices don't dip! I wonder if any forummers who are knowledgeable about the Russian sniper scope scene could comment; after all they've been reproing PE & PU scopes for some time now? Did the real scopes nose dive when the copies appeared on the scene? Anyone know?

ATB

ATB

[RJW NZ]

I've been watching PEM scopes for some time, the 1937 replicas and modern style with centered turrets get down to $199 US, sans mount, however the genuine 1934/37 pem's and similar are still asking $750's and up. I assume they're getting the sale at that price of they'd be falling but thats not the case.

FWIW My take on the Belgium scope is that its a parts bin special, or home builder, simple reason being I couldn't think of a good reason to make a 1 or 2 instead of a mk3, which has all the simple adjusters on it, someone sinking money into repros would be looking for max sales and I don't mk1 or 2's would be it.