L39 Unit Information - help !

[Peter Laidler]

Surely with your 'collection' of Enfield Rifles you could quite reasonably state your reason to acquire as being a collector. Or am I missing something? Is being a collector 'good reason'? Can you diversify from being a 'shooter' to a collector'. Enfield rifles is a pretty collectable subject I'd have thought, especially the amount we see coming through us.

Or is being a gun collector of Enfields a bit like being a Police sniper......., where it's really about what you call yourself. I notice in my local newspaper that there is a bit of jumping up and down because the Dept. of Transport people are calling themselves 'Traffic Officers'. A self instituted title that Traffic PC's used to call themselves. Oh, don't get me going this early on a Saturday morning with a busy range day tomorrow too.............

[Thunderbox]

Surely with your 'collection' of Enfield Rifles you could quite reasonably state your reason to acquire as being a collector. Or am I missing something? Is being a collector 'good reason'? Can you diversify from being a 'shooter' to a collector'. Enfield rifles is a pretty collectable subject I'd have thought, especially the amount we see coming through us.

Or is being a gun collector of Enfields a bit like being a Police sniper......., where it's really about what you call yourself. I notice in my local newspaper that there is a bit of jumping up and down because the Dept. of Transport people are calling themselves 'Traffic Officers'. A self instituted title that Traffic PC's used to call themselves. Oh, don't get me going this early on a Saturday morning with a busy range day tomorrow too.............

Peter, I think you're a bit shielded by your position from the worst excesses of UK police! Unfortunately, many/most police forces want you to be either a "shooter" or a "collector" - but not both. If you declare that you are "collecting" Enfields, then many police forces say "fine - but you're now not allowed to hold any ammo or shoot your rifles". Bit like the conditions imposed if you collect Sect 7 firearms. Most police forces will also refuse to grant additional variations on the grounds "why do you need more than one rifle in one calibre?". Some police forces are a bit more accommodating - particularly the ones who have a lot of LERA members and have been worn down by their constant demands for more .303" variations..... As an RFD, I'd assess that more than 90% of the potential UK trade in historic firearms is snuffed out by deliberately restrictive policing. Most of my stock/collection will probably eventually go for scrap or de-act, simply because the pool of FACs/variations is so small.

[PrinzEugen]

As an RFD, I'd assess that more than 90% of the potential UK trade in historic firearms is snuffed out by deliberately restrictive policing. Most of my stock/collection will probably eventually go for scrap or de-act, simply because the pool of FACs/variations is so small.

Yes there's a real tendency (in me as well) to save up for something 'a bit special' as you've only got very limited slots on the FAC - so all the hoards of (relatively) bog standard SMLEs and No4s just sit there in RFD collections. If I could do as I please I'd be adding a No4, No5 and at least another SMLE to my collection of Lee Enfields (out of six slots I have four enfields).
Shame really - and shows why, for example, 7.62 convs go for £50 or less a pop at auction. It also indicates why prices of 'sniper' rifles have gone through the roof.

[Beerhunter]

Is being a collector 'good reason'? Can you diversify from being a 'shooter' to a collector'.

According to "Guidance to the Police" (Home Office) collecting is indeed a 'Good Reason'. However as has been said some constabularies interpret that as meaning that no ammunition my be kept. Of course that is a nonsense and has no basis in law. The HBSA is an example of collectors who shoot their collections.

The HBSA got some guidance on this subject from the Home Office some years ago. (It is on the HBSA web site.) In the guidance letter, the Home Office say that when a firearm is held as part of collection it may occasionally be fired.

Section 7 is dealt with by having 7(1) for 'as part of a collection' and Section 7(3) for occasional firing.

BTW, I have to say that my constabulary have never queried the number of firearms of the same calbre.

[Alan de Enfield]

According to "Guidance to the Police" (Home Office) collecting is indeed a 'Good Reason'. However as has been said some constabularies interpret that as meaning that no ammunition my be kept. Of course that is a nonsense and has no basis in law. The HBSA is an example of collectors who shoot their collections.

The HBSA got some guidance on this subject from the Home Office some years ago. (It is on the HBSA web site.) In the guidance letter, the Home Office say that when a firearm is held as part of collection it may occasionally be fired.

Section 7 is dealt with by having 7(1) for 'as part of a collection' and Section 7(3) for occasional firing.

BTW, I have to say that my constabulary have never queried the number of firearms of the same calbre.

My local Constabulary are very good (and quick on variations - 2 weeks for the last one) but I do get the question why 3 of the same calibre, it was explained by the 'inspecting' officer that they needed to be different so my justificaton was :

a) one with original 'iron sights' if I wanted to do military competitions, (ie L39)
b) one with 'target sights' (ie PH5E/4) for target shooting, (ie Enforcer without scope)
c) one with a scope for target shooting where scopes are allowed. (ie Enforcer with scope)

It was similar with my .22s
a) one with open sights.
b) one with a scope for daytime rabbit shoting
c) one with a scope and a lamping kit for night time rabbit shooting.

The only problem I've ever had with them was when I was building an Enforcer 'clone', I purchased a proofed barreled action but they 'insisted' I had it re-proofed when I'd installed the furniture. After several communications backwards and forwards I referred them to the Proof House web site where they ask for furniture to be removed if a gun is sent for proofing. The requirement was dropped.

[Beerhunter]

The only problem I've ever had with them was when I was building an Enforcer 'clone', I purchased a proofed barreled action but they 'insisted' I had it re-proofed when I'd installed the furniture. After several communications backwards and forwards I referred them to the Proof House web site where they ask for furniture to be removed if a gun is sent for proofing. The requirement was dropped.

That shows the level of ignorance of the law amongst the police. First of all, proof is is nothing to do with them in their capacity as the licensing authority.

Second an offence is only committed if someone sells an unproofed firearm. In which case it becomes police matter but only in their capacity for law enforcement NOT as the licensing authority.

[Strangely Brown]

Three 7.62s on your license - Alan I salute you!
Hope you enjoy it - I really like shooting my l39.

Move to Wiltshire if you are having difficulty with your local authority!

My variation for five 7.62mm rifles only took five days.
I included a letter with the application telling them I was writing a paper on the Conversions of .303 rifles to 7.62mm (which I am) and they responded in kind.

[neal455]

Suffolk Police are pretty good. I have three 7.62mm X51 and three .303 slots as well as one .223 two .22 and one sect. 1 shotgun.
LERA is a good call for .303 and NRA Shooting Club is my main club.

I am told as long as i can sensible justify it then no problems. Some one for varations are turned around in one day down here !

[Beerhunter]

If we are praising local plod. (Makes a nice change.) Hampshire turned around my last .303 variation in a week.

[Strangely Brown]

If we are praising local plod. (Makes a nice change.) Hampshire turned around my last .303 variation in a week.

And to think Hampshire were rated one of the worst county's to deal with a few years ago!