lee- enfield no4 mk.1 308 longbranch

[ontguns]

Hi there im new to site so not very good with this i was wondering if anybody knew about this fifle.I would like to know if these are good shooters as i havent shot it yet. It is chambred in 308 all matching numbers i think .It has a ph5c rear site good shape its longbranch and has MP stamped in the chamber on left side any info would be great.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Calif-Steve]

Found in Canada? Many done by Longbranch. All keepers, for sure.

[Alan de Enfield]

Are you sure its .308 and not 7.62 ?
What markings does it have ?
There is a difference between 308 and 7.62, only use what it 'says on it'.

[jmoore]

Now you've done it! Just wait....








ETA
Sorry, I didn't mean you, ontguns! That was directed at Alan...

[villiers]

Now you've done it! Just wait....

Oh dear!

[Badger]

Well, some more information would be helpful and perhaps some pics...

Here's a link that will help you help us, so we can help you better.

What can you tell me about my rifle? (click here)

The "MP" marking is interesting, but the calibre designation confuses me. Maybe re-barreled by someone?

There's examples complete with photo pictorials of both 1941 and 1942 Long Branch rifles in the Knowledge Libraries.

Because of the "MP" marking you indicate and with thanks to member RNWMP, check out the entry in the Canada - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here), to see if that helps you.

1942/43/44 RCMP No.4 Mk1* Long Branch Rifles (click here) .....

Regards,
Badger

[Alan de Enfield]

I know, I know, the old can of worms has been opened.

I'm not talking about pressures, just that the chambers are different.

Commercial = 308
Military = 7.62

A 308 in a military chamber increases headspace by 13 thou (0.013")

[Surpmil]

The DCRA used them for years and must have got pretty good accuracy out of them or they would have found something else pronto. Between 2 and 3 thousand were converted at Long Branch for DCRA members who sent in their rifles for conversion IIRC. The receivers and bolts were magnafluxed and hardness tested (and perhaps had the lugs lapped or outwise tweaked/inspected, we don't really know now) and were then converted and proof fired. IIRC the conversions came back with a proof target, but I could be wrong about that. Sometimes bolts did not pass inspection so another was substituted at Long Branch. Whether they provided this, or the owner had to I don't know, but British bolts are sometimes seen and I doubt Long Branch would have had those in stock to use, so probably the owners had to cough up.

Check the barrel to see if it has the same conversion number under the rear handguard. Target shooters were known to swap/replace barrels etc.

Take it out and let us know how it shoots.

[jona]

Highest serial number found was 1949. About 250 more were made for the Canadian military for shooting competition. So only around 1250 were made/converted.

[Edward Horton]

Alan de Enfield and the “Oh No” - “Oh Dear” and “Can of Worms” or Sourpuss Naysayers et al.

The world did not come to an end when we fired commercial 30-06 ammunition in our American 03 Springfield’s or M17 Enfield’s, nor did these rifles blow up.

The world did not even come to an end when we fired commercial American SAAMI .303 ammunition in our British Enfield’s and they did not blow up.

In ALL of the above instances you have a headspace condition that does not match the design of the ammunition.

In real life the .308/7.62 chambers and headspace comes in three flavors:

Small- Target and Benchrest rifles
Medium- Standard hunting rifles.
Large- military combat rifles.

The Lee-Enfield .303 chamber and head space is larger than the .308/7.62 and head gap clearance can be as much as .016-.017 or .003 or .004 LARGER than the 7.62NATO. (Now think about it)

On the flip side of this the head space settings for the L42 are .002 tighter than U.S. Military or the SAAMI.

Does the world come to an end when we shoot commercial .308 ammunition in the Enfield Enforcer/L42 with a chamber that’s too tight?

Sometimes your porridge is too “HOT”, sometimes your porridge is too “COLD” and sometimes your porridge is just RIGHT.

(And when you are hungry, you eat the porridge anyway no matter what the temperature or the SIZE of the bowl.)


Alan, British and American porridge:

From Peters little green book.

L42 head space
1.628 GO
1.635 NO-GO

L1A1 Head space
1.635 GO
1.643 NO-GO

From our American "Little green book"

Different headspace dimensions are defined by different manufacturers, organizations and countries, an example of this is the 7.62mm/.308 cartridge in the U.S.:

CARTRIDGE MIN MAX
SAAMI 1.627 1.634
GOVERNMENT 1.630 1.633

CHAMBER MIN MAX
SAAMI 1.630 1.640
GOVERNMENT M-14 1.6355 1.6385
GOVERNMENT M-14 Match 1.631 1.633