Some 8mm Cast Bullet Observations

[Beadwindow]

Hello Again

However late your posting this, I thought that I'd share with you all some of my initial attempts with cast bullets in two Mauser 98k's with the Lee 205gr mould sized from .329 to .323 and 31 grains of IMR3031. Someone at the Surplusrifle.com forums recommended this load as a favourite of his that cronygraphed at 1750fps, which allowed me to prep some cartridges while waiting for some 8x57mm moulds to arrive. I had a chance to try out a Brno Mauser 98k that I purchased about a decade ago for about $120 at the now defunct King Sol's in Toronto, and a more recently purchased RC Mauser 98k from SIR. This was my first time shooting either rifle, and took place over three weeks ago, before heading out to Wainright on a Army Reserve exercise.

At 50 yards, my Brno Mauser benched these loads into a group of 1.3 inches, while from the sitting position I still managed a 1.8 inch group. In some ways this was not too surprising since the the bore showed little if any use when purchased and the rifle was in unusually good condition. My RC Mauser managed 2.3 inches benched and 3.3 inches sitting, with four out of five shots in the latter at 1.3 inches. It's bore showed more signs of use but has strong rifling, and I have not taken it apart to check the wood to metal fit or slugged the bore for its diameter. My attempts at 100m sitting were awfull with both rifles, but it would appear from these groups that my results had more to do with my having yet to pick up my new eyeglasses prescription and the fact that my shooting was hampered by feeling ill for most of the afternoon. Over the long term I might get a no-gunsmithing scout mount, though that will have to wait for now.

While I've since picked up a Lee 175gr mold for 8mm Mauser, I will certainly continue to use the 205gr loading in these rifles again. In the Brno, I would not hesitate to try these loads on small game, and have gotten sufficient accuracy in the older RC Mauser to think that it's worth working up a load sometime in the future. Time in the fall will be at a premium, considering the hunting season (mainly waterfowl and grouse), militia weekends, the salmon/trout run in the Humber/Credit and working up loads for my 9.3x57 mausers. With luck though I'll try some more controlled testing with cast bullets, including both the Lee 175 gr in 8mm and perhaps comparing both sized and unsized cast bullets in my various Enfields.

With Regards,

Frank

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[solman]

hi frank, 'solman' here. down in washington state. great observations. did you get much leading? i shoot lead in my '71 mauser, but have yet to try in my
98's.

[tbhupe]

So how did you make out with the 175 gr LEE casts?

I just got my mold last week and am just starting to pour out bullets now. I am going to be using a Yugo M-48 and would like to know what to try for powder. I have tried the 205 gr sized down to .323 (Yeah I have a M95 as well) and 30 gr of 3031, but they were more like a shotgun than a rifle. I just want something that is fun to shoot and reasonably accurate (couple of inches at 50 yds should do)

Thanks. tbhupe

[Beadwindow]

So how did you make out with the 175 gr LEE casts?

I just got my mold last week and am just starting to pour out bullets now. I am going to be using a Yugo M-48 and would like to know what to try for powder. I have tried the 205 gr sized down to .323 (Yeah I have a M95 as well) and 30 gr of 3031, but they were more like a shotgun than a rifle. I just want something that is fun to shoot and reasonably accurate (couple of inches at 50 yds should do)

Thanks. tbhupe

I've been too preoccupied with reloading all of the .303Br brass that I have and haven't yet cast any 175gr bullets for the 8mm Mausers. While I suspect that unsized 175gr bullets will shoot better in my RC 98 than the heavier bullets sized down to .323 (which is probably a bit too small) that will have to wait. The fact that I got significantly better groups with my far mintier post-war Brno suggests that it's probably an issue of bore diameter, which provided my main motivation for purchasing the 175gr mould.

Except for when I get a good lead suggesting otherwise, I am more and more inclining towards loading 24-28 grains of IMR 3031 for 150-200 grain bullets and standard sized cases. I have a bunch of .303 loads with 24 grains of powder, plus a batch of 25 loaded up from 24-28 grains to try out as soon as I can make it to the range. I might try a similar loading with the 175 grain bullets in 8mm Mauser, or perhaps push it up to 30 grains. Since the 205 gr bullet with 31gr of 3031 is supposed to shoot around 1750fps, I suspect that it is at the higher end of what my #2 alloy can handle. Perhaps you should try a lighter load with the 205 gr bullets to see if they shoot better before giving up on it.

Frank

[tbhupe]

Sounds like a plan. I have to get some more 3031 but I'll let you know how it goes.

[buffdog]

First of all, cast bullets do work for a lot of things. For practice loads, they are good. I have been shooting for over 50 years, and I have used cast bullets for target shooting out to 400 yards with the .303, with about the same accuracy as Service ammunition. You just have to make adjustments on the sights for trajectory.

Clean your rifles thoroughly. If you have been using jacketed bullets, then Get The Copper Out. I have found that cast bullets do not shoot well in a copper fouled barrel. Try different kinds of lubricant. It can really make a difference. I have used everything from old formulas to railway axle hot box greese. The newer Lee stick lubes with the NRA Alox formula works well in most applications for me. Although cast lead bullets were perfected in shallow multi grooved barrels during the Schutzen period before 1900, I have found that they will even work well in a good TWO groove SMLE or Springfield. Generally the longer, rounder nosed, heavier bullets work best.

On sizing cast bullets, the least you can get away with seems to work the best. I find that .002 over regular bore diameter is fine. Larger than that, accuracy seems to diminish. Since you are sizing the 8mm to .323 bore diameter, try a couple of thou. larger. Also, are you using a lubricator-sizer?
If you are, the bullets are pushed down base first, and if the nose die is not PERFECTLY centered, they tip a bit. I use LEE sizer dies if I can, as they push the bullet through nose first, and align them better.

Bullet metal hardness has a great factor on accuracy, along with a dozen other things that you really don't think about.

That is just a few comments. On the other side, a friend of mine has a Buffalo silhouette made out of a sheet of 4 foot x 8 foot steel plate, set out at 800 yards from his shooting bench. It can be regularly hit with his 45-70 Sharps replica.

[Beadwindow]

Well, I've finally gotten hold of a camera to take pics of my groups.

Here's my first group out of my Brno K98 taken last year (50yds benched, 205gr bullet sized to .323 and powered by 31grs IMR 3031):



Last weekend, I took her out again and after some sight adjustment did this at 100m sitting:



With my RC K98 I got this grouping with her last season:



Here's another grouping from this past weekend (100m sitting):



The Brno has a really nice bore compared to the RC which is a bit dark but with strong rifling, so I was not too surprised to see the Brno shoot better. I do find the open sights difficult to use at 100m, but thankfully should have my new prescription by the next time that I can make it to the range.

One other observation from this past weekend was that my groupings at 50m benched had grown somewhat from those pictured here. I suspect that it's due to my having failed to crimp my latest batch of cartridges, which I'll have corrected before I take some more out to the range. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with my results, since it was only my second time out to the range this year and I was happy to shoot groups from field stances at a reasonable hunting distance.