A (perhaps) Silly Question

[sabretech2001]

Does anyone know how well a Bren magazine works 'upside down'? I.e., the cartridges feed from the top, as opposed to the normal Bren mounting. I've got this idea of modifying one to fit a No4: I can have me an Assault Enfield!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Peter Laidler]

It worked on the Charlton..................

[Beerhunter]

The rukes were that you were not supposed to use L4 magazines on SLRs but but could use SLR magazines on L4s in an emergency. It was explained that the L4 magazine was designed to feed with the assistance of gravity.

However, donkey's years ago, my then boss always used an L4 magazine on his SLR and, although the practice was frowned upon from on high, as far as I remember he didn't have one failure with it.

[Peter Laidler]

Your boss was right Beery! The L4 MG and L1 rifle magazines were deliberately made to be and were, fully interchangeable with no help from gravity.

The only ones that did interchange but didn't work too well were the earlier 30 round X10/L4A1 and the 20 round British trials FN mags. This was because of the original L4A1 hold open mechanism that was marginal. And when it failed, the accelerating breech block whacked the empty platform and buckled it. But the platform was modified when the magazines were made for the L4A2/L1A1. And the L4's did without a HOD.

They decided after the troop trials that a HOD is a bit of a frill that you could do without. Because even if you don't count your rounds, even during the heat and noise during a wild gun battle, you WILL hear the empty metallic ring of the breech block closing on an empty chamber. And they're right..... you do!

[infidel]

I have a 30 round (probably south african) FN/bren mag. I've read that they were not reliable etc. w/o gravity assist! I've never had a problem with it in the FN.

[trooper554877]

the L2A1 or AR, Peter you would know this beast, mags could be used on the SLR. We tried them but where not favoured as when prone the mag caught the ground and also upset the balance of the rifle and sometimes the mag would release due to the supposedly weak mag catch.
So my question is where the AR mags the same as the L4?
I can't honestly remember if they where but you being an armourer over peter would know.
cheers
NED

[Peter Laidler]

The Australian made L2 rifle mags were a slightly different shape to the pom L4 magazines but both worked with each other. The Australian onew were straight and the pom ones had a very slight curve. Australia didn't buy any more of the pom L4 mags after the initial buy with the guns but just carried on using the L2 rifle mags.

Using the longer 30 round mags on the L1A1 rifle did raise your profile a few inches

As I said earlier, the only problem we had with out early L4A1 gun magazines, with the little FN type knib at the front was that the breech block could and would buckle the platform if the HOD failed....as it regularly did!

As a matter of interest, due to the sizeable amount of L4A1 guns still sloshing around in the rear echelon armouries, a last batch of FN type 30 round magazines and HOD's were manufactured quite late on

[Kev G]

Just to illustrate some of Peters comments on the L4A4 and L4A1

L4A4 ejector block on left.
L4A1 ejector block on right with hold open device 'button' behind the mag catch.




Markings on an L4A1 X3E1 early 30 round magazine with FN locking lug




FN locking lug top (L4A1 type)
Commonwealth locking lug bottom (L4A4 type)




The L4A1 magazines were shorter too (only fill with 28 rounds ?)




The bottom plate on the FN locking lug magazines was internaly retained which was altered to externaly retained on commonwealth lug mags.



ATB Kevin

[browningautorifle]

I thought he was asking about using a 303 Bren mag on a Lee Enfield? That would be a whole different thing!

[Peter Laidler]

Oh yes, I almost forgot.......... with the early magazine the bottom lips folded IN and it meant that in the dark, wet or in a hurry, you could insert th magazine upside down where it fails to feed! See KG's photos

Good to see the old troublesome A1 ejector block and hold open device again. They weren't interchangeable so an L4A1 couldn't be upgraded either

I'm pretty sure that given a hammer and a file that you COULD get a Bren magazine to fit into a No4, I doubt whether you'd ever get it to feed