Need help on SC bolt features

[604flyer]

I'm hoping those of you that are fluent on SC 03A3 features can help me out. I have some questions regarding bolts used on original guns, so fire away.

1. Is there any logic to the numbers found on the underside of the bolt handles? Would lower numbers be seen on early guns and higher numbers on later guns?
2. I know that SC safeties have rounded corners but have been told that late SCs had square corners on the safety. Comments?
3. Would a blued bolt assembly (body & bolt sleeve) with a parkerized cocking piece be correct for a late SC?
4. Final question...it seems that I frequently see OG (not OGEK) marked 03A3s with mismatched bolts on otherwise original appearing guns. Is it possible that they stored the guns without bolts and reinstalled them at a later date?

The reason for the questions is that I scored a really drippy mint original late SC, full of grease, that is marked OG but it has a R marked bolt assembly. The condition of the bolt matches the rest of the gun...unused and full of grease. All else is as it should be. I want to find a correct SC bolt but just want to be sure of what I should be looking for.

Thanks in advance guys! And a belated Happy New Year to everyone.

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[JGaynor]

604 since your question 4 is of a more general nature let me take a crack at it.

The OG and OGEK marks basically indicated the rifle passed thru an arsenal where it was 1. inspected 2. Repaired (if necessary) or 3. Rebuilt (if necessary).

In the rebuilding process the rifles were stripped to major subassemblies or further. The subassemblies or parts went in many different directions to be cleaned, inspected, repaired, refinished or discarded and replaced with new stock where necessary.

Then the refurbished components were reassmbled into essentially new rifles.
Since the parts of a given model were designed to be interchangeable (subject to head spaceing) the arsenal had no particular concern that all the parts on a rebuilt rifle came from the original or even a single manufacturer. They just grabbed the next bolt out of the bin and if it headspaced you were good to go.

Once finally inspected the rebuilt rifles got the cosmoline dip/wrap treatment and were put away until the next time they would be needed (or disposed of whichever came first).

So its unlikely that the bolts would have been stored separately. It would have added several extra steps(cost) to the re-manufacturing process and would have made reissue of the rifles considerably more complicated.

Regards,

Jim

[604flyer]

JGaynor, thanks for taking the time to reply. Guess I could have been more specific in question 4 of my post, I just keep coming up with more questions here.

Bear with me here....I actually have 2 SCs in my safe, both have the OG marking on the stock. Both guns have the proper mix of blued small parts and parkerized larger parts that original finish SCs are known to have. I'm certain that both of these rifles are original finish guns and not rebuilds. The earlier of the two rifles is 100% correct, the later gun is the one mentioned in my original post. As I said, it's factory new with the exception of the R marked bolt assembly which looks as good as the rest of the rifle (BTW..the serial number of this rifle is about 2500 numbers away from the last SC per contract shown on ViShooters site). Now it's my understanding that OG reflects storage at Ogden, vs OGEK meaning that a gun has been through rebuild/overhaul. So if it was simply stored at Ogden, inspected, then sent to who knows where, did the bolt assembly get switched out during inspection process? I've been advised that there was no lateral support between SC and Remington, so the R bolt assembly would not have originally been in the gun.

Just would like to add that I've been into M1 carbines and garands for some years, but I'm still learning about the 03/03A3 species. I'm not a newbie to US milsurps so I have a pretty good handle of spotting original vs refinished weapons, just have some voids in my head to fill on this subject.

Oh well...off to bed. Thanks again folks.

[Chuckindenver]

acually,
its known that Remington gave SC Stocks early in production...however.
they sent no bolts..
but, pile of rifles, pile of bolts...you think that guy cared it was X or R marked??
likely, the person doing the checks on rifle, had 5 or more at one time in a rack, common to mix bolt during this.
originally SC rifles had a X on the top of the bolt root, Blue in finish.

[USSR]

3. Would a blued bolt assembly (body & bolt sleeve) with a parkerized cocking piece be correct for a late SC?

The original cocking piece was blued. The only piece on the S-C bolt that was originally parkerized was the safety.

Don

[John Beard]

I'm hoping those of you that are fluent on SC 03A3 features can help me out. I have some questions regarding bolts used on original guns, so fire away.

1. Is there any logic to the numbers found on the underside of the bolt handles? Would lower numbers be seen on early guns and higher numbers on later guns?
2. I know that SC safeties have rounded corners but have been told that late SCs had square corners on the safety. Comments?
3. Would a blued bolt assembly (body & bolt sleeve) with a parkerized cocking piece be correct for a late SC?
4. Final question...it seems that I frequently see OG (not OGEK) marked 03A3s with mismatched bolts on otherwise original appearing guns. Is it possible that they stored the guns without bolts and reinstalled them at a later date?

The reason for the questions is that I scored a really drippy mint original late SC, full of grease, that is marked OG but it has a R marked bolt assembly. The condition of the bolt matches the rest of the gun...unused and full of grease. All else is as it should be. I want to find a correct SC bolt but just want to be sure of what I should be looking for.

Thanks in advance guys! And a belated Happy New Year to everyone.

Season's Greetings!

Answers are as follows:

(1) Yes. Early bolts were marked with a "1". As production increased, "2", "7", and "8" were added.

(2) You were misinformed. All SC safety locks are identical, except that early ones were blued and later ones had a lightly-parkerized finish.

(3) Yes. Precisely!

(4) Not likely. There was no compelling reason I am aware of to store rifles without bolts. The large majority of OG rifles I have examined also had their original bolts. Your rifle's bolt was more likely replaced to improve headspace.

And Happy New Year to you too!

J.B.

[604flyer]

Thanks to all of you that answered my questions. What Chuck wrote makes perfect sense, especially after having seen the CMP crew at work back in the volunteer days. And thanks to John for giving me some badly needed info regarding the bolt. A fellow collector has a NOS bolt that is a perfect match for this rifle. One last thing while I have your attention; am I correct in my understanding of the OG vs OGEK arsenal markings?

When I get a bit of free time, I'll shoot some pics of the late SC I picked up...I think you guys will like it. Thanks again!!!!

[John Beard]

Thanks to all of you that answered my questions. What Chuck wrote makes perfect sense, especially after having seen the CMP crew at work back in the volunteer days. And thanks to John for giving me some badly needed info regarding the bolt. A fellow collector has a NOS bolt that is a perfect match for this rifle. One last thing while I have your attention; am I correct in my understanding of the OG vs OGEK arsenal markings?

When I get a bit of free time, I'll shoot some pics of the late SC I picked up...I think you guys will like it. Thanks again!!!!

The boxed "O.G.E.K." marking is the overhaul/repair inspection stamp of Elmer Keith at Ogden Arsenal. The marking appears only in rifles that have been overhauled or repaired.

An "O.G." marking in a 3-sided box open on the right side is the overhaul/repair inspection stamp of Ogden Arsenal after Keith's departure. The marking appears only in rifles that have been overhauled or repaired.

And unboxed "O.G." marking is an inspection stamp of Ogden Arsenal and appears almost exclusively in new unissued rifles.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[604flyer]

Thanks John. That confirms what I've been told about the Ogden arsenal markings. Both of my SCs have the unboxed OG marks on the buttstock.

Since I have your attention, let me get your opinion on the bolt that I've located. It's a NOS complete bolt assembly, appears to be original finish and to never have been on a rifle. The bolt body, extractor, and bolt sleeve all have a matte blued finish. The body is marked X on top, 8 on bottom of the handle. The extractor is marked S on the bottom, the bolt sleeve has the proper scallops and is marked G. The safety tab has rounded corners, a medium gray phosphate finish, and serifed lettering. The cocking piece has a phosphate finish and typical SC contour as seen on Vishooter's site. I haven't taken the bolt apart to check the internal parts. The rifle with the R bolt is a 4843xxx, 11-43 dated gun in new condition. So...does it sound like this is the bolt I need????

[John Beard]

Thanks John. That confirms what I've been told about the Ogden arsenal markings. Both of my SCs have the unboxed OG marks on the buttstock.

Since I have your attention, let me get your opinion on the bolt that I've located. It's a NOS complete bolt assembly, appears to be original finish and to never have been on a rifle. The bolt body, extractor, and bolt sleeve all have a matte blued finish. The body is marked X on top, 8 on bottom of the handle. The extractor is marked S on the bottom, the bolt sleeve has the proper scallops and is marked G. The safety tab has rounded corners, a medium gray phosphate finish, and serifed lettering. The cocking piece has a phosphate finish and typical SC contour as seen on Vishooter's site. I haven't taken the bolt apart to check the internal parts. The rifle with the R bolt is a 4843xxx, 11-43 dated gun in new condition. So...does it sound like this is the bolt I need????

Wow!

You have a very last production rifle! Please e-mail me the complete serial number. I would like to enter it in my data base. Jvbeard at knology dot net. Use symbols for at and dot.

The bolt assembly you have located sounds like a correct bolt for your rifle. The only comment I'll make to your description is that the safety lock should have a small drain hole on the outer edge.

And, finally, we need to verify that you have an SC mainspring and an SC striker and the bolt matches your rifle's late serial number. Take the bolt apart, count the mainspring number of turns, and the direction of twist, and email that to me. And before you put the bolt back together, we can verify if you have an SC striker.

Congratulations!

J.B.