No 1 MK 111 star changes

[read6737]

Hi One and all.

What were the changes made to the mk 111 to turn it into a mk 111 star?
I know they put a simpler rear sight on but what else.?

I have a mk 3 star with all matching numbers. only the bolt as far as I can see has been changed by the old number being carefully machined off and a new one stamped on.
I think the barrel has been replaced because there in a difference in the blue.
Front end cap is matching and the mag but not forced changed and no other stampings.
Just remembered the rear sight has been force changed.

It is a 1917 Enfield made mk111` it has been FTR but no date is an FTR normally dated? the FTR stamping is just across and touching the 111` stamping. The ID disk has been removed and the hole properly filled. The rifle is in very very good condition. I do not know its history other than it was an off ticket gun in France and hidden away for a while. I have had it now for 4 years.

Information

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[jmoore]

Changes included (but weren't all incorpoated at the same time)-

no windage adj. rear sight
no long range (volley) sights
no mag cutoff
no swivel loops forward of the mag well (just a wire loop)
cocking piece simplified (not altogether sure thats an official change for the * classification)

[Peter Laidler]

I think that I have mentioned this in a former thread, perhaps on another site. But for Armourers, the question of Mk3 or Mk3* status was a bit hazy or even ambiguous. But here goes......

In one of the last No1 Mk3 EMER's (yes, EMER's WERE issued in respect of the No1 rifles in 1956) it 'sort of' clarified the position of whether a No1 Mk3 was a Mk3 or a 3*. It ignored the odds and sods to explain that in the interests of standardisation, that all rifles made without the provision of a cut-off would be regarded as Mk3* rifles and so far as practicably possible (lovely choice of words isn't it....) should conform to the current (presumably latest) specification.

All rifles provisioned for (made with ...) a cut-off slot (Mk3's), where the cut-off has been removed, WILL be fitted with a fore-end that covers the otherwise open slot to prevent the ingress of foreign matter (I think they mean ****e and rubbish.....). These rifles shall be advanced to and marked Mk3*. But a rifle so advanced shall not return to its former status for any reason. Where practicable, these rifles should conform to the current specification.

I take this to read this:
that a Mk3* rifle remains a Mk3* for ever and always regardless of the different this that and the other that it's fitted with.
a Mk3 rifle that has had the cut-off removed in the past will be fitted with a high sided fore-end and THEN be advanced to and marked Mk3* regardless of the fact that it still has a cut-off slot albeit under the wood. BUT thereafter it can NEVER revert to low wood and its old Mk3 spec.

Is that as clear as mud? Luckily we didn't have too many No1 rifles except for the hundreds of EY's and those with the Cadet Forces.

This probably explains why some rifles are marked Mk3* but have cut-offs and some could(?) have the little star barred out.

[bradtx]

read6737, The '*' changes were primarily directed to simplified manufacture procedures so fore ends were no longer dished for the volley sight, no slot milling and drill and tapping for the cut off required, manufacture of cutoff no longer required along with jmoore's list. Rifles that were repaired were often done so to '*' specs. Depending on where and at what time the FTR took place, any manner of marking, or even none at all could've taken place.

As a side note, interwar production returned to Mk.III configuration...sort of. Actually only the cutoff returned.

Brad

PS jmoore, I think the cocking piece design was seperate from the '*' changes, but is an interesting thought.

[read6737]

Thanks for the clear as mud reply.

AS i live in France things are always as clear as mud. This is for the French man who has a 2hr lunch, I cannot complain I enjoy them.

I must admit that I am getting addicted to reading so many posts and all snippets of information that is written. I wish I had made better use of the great knowledge base years ago.

At some point soon I will write a list of all my arms.
I must as I have no inventory just what is in my head.
I know it is 3 enfields, 9 mausers, 2 MAS, M.H, etc.

David