Drill Purpose Rifle L59A1 UK Legal Status

[Beerhunter]

I saw one recently that had been purchased as an L54 DP Bren prior to the 'ban' and subsequently re-submitted for certification. Just the barrel welded in and it passed. But was there even a need for it to have been re-submitted on the basis that the law isn't retrospective?

Not in my opinion, that is to say, providing the owner was ready to fight, in court, any constabulary that said that he/she was is possession of a Section Five firearm or parts thereof.

I remember in the pre-1988 Firearms Amendment Act that some constabularies did not like Deacts and took every opportunity to prosecute.

[Kev G]

Just to muddy the waters but would appreciate any comments or opinion on the status of 'relics' if that is the correct classification for ground dug rusty/damaged weapons ?
As part of my collection I would like to bring back from France a Dunkirk Bren or SMLE that has been dug up.
How rusty or damaged does it have to be before it is considered a relic and isn't considered a firearm ?

ATB KG

[Thunderbox]

Just to muddy the waters but would appreciate any comments or opinion on the status of 'relics' if that is the correct classification for ground dug rusty/damaged weapons ?
As part of my collection I would like to bring back from France a Dunkirk Bren or SMLE that has been dug up.
How rusty or damaged does it have to be before it is considered a relic and isn't considered a firearm ?

ATB KG

This is quite a dangerous grey area of the law.

Many people buy or own "relic" condition firearms but, AFAIK, there is no actual legal definition of "relic" or "non firing condition". All relics remain Section 1 or section 5 unless they are physically de-activated to the current specification. People tend to escape prosecution because the police are generally ignorant about just how "viable" many apparent relics can be. A barrel remains a barrel, no matter how rusty or bent; a barrelled receiver can be made to shoot by anyone with sufficient skill and materials. Even relic ammunition often retains a perfectly viable propellant charge if the case is sealed.

Someone brought a corroded lump of an SMLE relic action to me, to see if could be tarted up to be mounted on a board. After soaking in kerosene and applying a blow-torch and a wire brush on a power drill, the bolt freed up and the receiver cleaned up to the point that the pins and screws could be removed. The barrel (front 6" missing) wire-brushed out to reveal rifling. Although the action was badly pitted (and possible a bit distorted), it was clear that by substituting the (non-controlled in UK) small parts, you'd end up with a functioning firearm. That relic did go to be de-activated.....

(As a lad in Africa, I remember the Police and Game wardens burning a stack of seized rifles - mostly Lee Enfields. The fire was intense, and all that was left was a mass of twisted barrelled actions. Nevertheless, this scrap was promptly stolen, and the rifles were straightened out and re-used by poachers....)

[Peter Laidler]

In the great scheme of things, it is very simple. The Crown have got to prove to the satisfaction of the Court that what you possess is a firearm, as defined, capable of discharging a shot, bullet or other like missile or parts etc etc - beyond all reasonable doubt. The fact that you can possess a deact has, according to a case at Winchester Crown Court (regarding a bayonet collection and flash eliminators) opened the door to lawful possession of all(?) of the non pressure or load bearing parts contained within a firearm.

If, what you own isn't capable of discharging etc etc etc and.... then you're home and dry. But if it can be made to, in the opinion of the person who examined it, then you're in the mire.

A case involving a totally off-licence and pre deactivated, welded up MG42 fixed to an Africa Corps replica motorbike and side car was thrown out of court on the basis that it wasn't capable of discharging and could nbever, ever be made to do so in the opinion of the examiner.

But every case must be examined on its merits. A pistol dug up from a wartime slit trench, lost by an officer in 1944 - er sorry.......... lost by his batman of course.............. was left in a waste engine oil tank for a year and fired 12 rounds faultlessly after being washed down

Incidentally, fire rarely destroys a firearm by melting and distortion as generally speaking you don't get those high temps. What it does is destroy the metallurgy of the springs and hardness of the steel.
added later after a discussion.......... but it might still be fireable, even if it's only once!