Do I have a clossetted M2 carbine?

[imarangemaster]

Gosh, if the "1" is missing, and there is clearly no "2" to overstamp, I can led you a "1" stamp to be safe!

[Harlan (Deceased)]

No matter that it's not in the serial number range for M2's, from your own description it has been altered at a very suspicious and conspicuous location to a Fed. I wouldn't be comfortable either. The average Fed has no idea of serial number ranges for M2's and having that area of important ID scrubbed just doesn't look good. If anything ever came from it you might need to prove the history of M2's and the correlation of serial numbers after going through who knows what. Attorney fees are not cheap. The legal system doesn't return your money for having to hire an attorney to bond out of jail when they are 100% wrong.

Very likely nothing will ever come from it, but as Chuckindenver said, if you still want to keep it, I would not discuss it with anyone, and certainly not have discussed it on the internet. The ATF doesn't fly black helicopters looking for these type of things, but it only takes one &%$#@& anti-gun reader to alert them.

$400 is a good price for a carbine, but for anther $100-$200 you can get a rebuilt CMP or another rebuilt carbine from someplace else. Personally, I would not feel comfortable with it, especially if you have a chance of returning it. It's always fun for people to talk about proving the ATF wrong, but it's another thing actually dealing with them. JMO

[Calif-Steve]

I wonder if this thing is actually a 7 million Carbine. Take a real hard look at the serial number. Is there a missing last number? I think someone had a grinder in his shop. Just my $.02. This thing is probably not worth the trouble it could cause you.

[Mike Henning]

1) Can you confirm that the serial number is 700,00 not 7,000,000 range?

2) It doesn't really matter which range it is, if the area where the 1 or 2 was has been ground off, the ATF will be able to argue that the only reason to grind there is to remove a 2!

ATF can argue that either the gun was in the 7m range and was most likely an M2 to begin with, or if it is in the 700k range was an M1 that was overstamped with a 2 and thus was an M2 at the time when the 2 was added; thus it is a machine gun!

3) Take it back to your dealer and demand your money back. He should know better than to sell a carbine with the model number area defaced.

It's not worth the risk!

Mike

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Not trying to demean the LEO's on this board. Or those out on the line in service for us. I have the greatest respect for them. But the majority of them I know, and that is quite a few, really have no idea of the markings on the receiver ring. I don't think they know what should be there. So if a number is missing it is not easily noticed. They see you at the range and think it is cool having a classic rifle. Some ask to try it out. Or the Garand sitting next to it. But very few think of or worry about them being illegal.

I think that is partly due to the average age of the men now. The older guys my age might have had them in the squad locker or trunks of their cruisers. These men are now retiring or already retired. Times have changed and so have the weapons. They are looking for black guns now.

That's not to say take a chance and own an M-2 or bring an M-2 to the range. I am sure if the number 2 is there it might spark something in their memory banks. And then you could wake up next to Bubba. I don't feel it is something that people are on the lookout for now a days.

Just my thoughts.

Jim

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Jim,

I agree with your thoughts, but I have to respectfully disagree he should keep this altered carbine. You are right that most LE wouldn't notice it or if they did might not even care. The ATF is not anything like a local police officer at all. They are government employees much like a postal worker.

Government employees are in a different world from hard working police officers who are usually appreciative of unique guns. Many government agents often don't have a lot to do other than justify their jobs. Many of them don't have much of a clue about many things in their own field, but will jump on a little thing they think is illegal and they'll hold onto it. Getting an arrest, or even better a conviction for a citizen having an illegal machine gun would make many of them thrilled because they'd look better to their supervisors. It really works that way.

The worst thing about this situation is the gentleman asked a question about his scrubbed M1/M2 nomenclature carbine on the internet and people are telling him not to worry about it. I've seen this response before many times when people ask about this. It's not the responders lives. Just look at the members at the bottom of this page who've already read this thread. There are actually 1000's of people who read some of these internet threads over a few weeks who are not members.

Bottom line - To me a firearm in a category as unique as an M1 carbine that can be classified as a machine gun by Federal Law with only the little stamp of a '2' and the stamp area is removed makes it a target for investigation or prosecution if a Federal agent becomes ware and wants a case. I don't think we should advise a person with such a carbine to not worry about it. Not for the worth of a rebuilt carbine. A Federal case might take years to get through court and ruin a person's life and happiness in the process even if it's thrown out. JMO

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Jim,

I agree with your thoughts, but I have to respectfully disagree he should keep this altered carbine. You are right that most LE wouldn't notice it or if they did might not even care. The ATF is not anything like a local police officer at all. They are government employees much like a postal worker.

Harlan,

I never said to keep an altered carbine, that was another responder. I totally agree that it is not worth the possible trouble now or down the road. I said I don't think the average LEO would notice. Feds are a different group.

My first post on this thread was:
Handstamped 1's and 2 over 1's started showing up in the high 6 million range, machine stamped M-2's in the 7 million range. Yours in the 700,000 range would originally have been an M-1.

The photo's I posted are from years ago, and now long gone. Brady took care of that for me.

Jim

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Jim,

I understand what you were saying about the average LE. I just didn't want the original poster to get the wrong idea and think he should keep it, and I'm sorry I got lost with all the responses.

It's a real shame you lost those M2's! I've only seen a few real M2's at gun shows and the asking prices were unbelievable. (Sticker shock in extreme!)

I'm very sorry I took your post in the wrong way. I agree 'ammodave' should take his carbine back to the dealer ASAP and try to get his money back. If the dealer gives him a problem, he should ask him how he listed it on his books with no nomenclature on it and being scrubbed. It should have never been sold to anyone.

I hope that one of these days you take the time to pull all of your carbines out of your safes and take a group photo! Since you'd probably need to put them on your driveway to get them all in one place, you should also get your carbine related web gear, accessorries etc out and put it all together with a large group photo.
(I hope you have a large driveway)

Probably not a good idea though....
People will think you're having a carbine garage sale and you'd be trampled!

Your friend as always,
~ Harlan

[Tired Retired]

I'm back to several questions that keep popping into my head (guess its the old cop in me).....

Why have I seen this same question been posted:
1) on at least two different sites;
2) each time by a newly registered person;
3) with a 7,000,000 Inland serial ( 3 carbines with a different serial each time);
4) the "2" has been altered or gound off;
5) the person knows enough to know that there is an issue but wants to know "what to do".
6) photos never get posted.

Maybe I am just overly negative in the moring without my coffee, but is this a case of:
a) a rash of altered 7 mil carbines that someone got rid of before they got caught?
b) one really confused person?
c) some kind of set up by someone looking to build a case (i.e. Like BATF or Brady people, or someone who doesn't like CMP or the acorn sting?)

Ok, I'm going to:
1) go get some coffee;
2) check everyone of my 7-mil Inlands to make sure its "1" does not look like a "2" which has been ground off;
3) make sure that I don't have a fake pimp and prostitute with a hidden video camera come by my safe room today.

Oh, does anyone have a 7-mil Inland I can borrow? I can't seem to find one in my safe with a ground off "2"?

[ammodave]

FWIW it's definitely a 6 digit serial # beginning with a 7. There is absolutely no evidence of a 7th digit. I think I'm sorry I asked the question to begin with; I just assumed there was some other definitive way to identify an M2 receiver other than the M2 stamp.