When did USN First Issue M1903s

[45B20]

Going thru some old American Rifleman and came upon this little article.

First part states: the questioner’s father was in the Navy in 1909 and said he was armed with the Krag and the son wants to know “When did the Navy start using the M1903 Springfield?”

Ludwig Olson of the AR staff answered:

“The Jan. 5, 1911 issue of Arms and The Man announced the Navy purchase of M1903 rifles for sailors and marines on board battleships and armored cruisers in commission”.

Nothing mentioned about sailors or marines stationed at land bases.

This is from the July 59 AR.

First possible use of the M1903 by the US Army in a combat situation (not counting bar fights and riots in this) IS: 4th Cav. Regt, Troops F, G, I, & K, Capture of/Battle of Mount Dajo 06 to 08 March 1906.

Now this is a maybe, Springfield stated all Army had M1903s of one type or another by the end of fiscal 1906, June 06??. Alaska and Philippines had priority, so maybe. McAulay states 4th Cav. had 03s at end of 06, so maybe. But I am not sure if he means fiscal or annual. Does any one know if the Philippines and Alaska were in the Department of California????

From the little I have read about the US Army in the Philippines, the first unit located in the southern islands that received the M1903 would be the first to use the 03 in combat. Lots of small but deadly stuff. Again, this definition of Combat is very loose. The Moros Uprising would be more like putting down a rebellion.

45B20

Information

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[arado]

I was issued an 03 in 1960 in Navy boot camp to march with. Had no firing pin. Then they issued me an M1. I fired it twice. Then off to airplane school. I know nothing of earlier usage. Gary Moore

[Rick the Librarian]

Common "agreement" for the Navy and Marines seems to be as you said, 1911.

As far as I know the Philippines was its "own" department and not part of any military district that included California. If you want to read an interesting book that describes the U.S. Army in the Pacific territories during the 1902-1940 era, read Brian Linn's Guardians of Empire. It has little on equipment, weapons, etc. but gives a good background.

As you may know, Bruce Canfield has a picture of Alaskan troops equipped with the RB, labeled "1905" and he hints that some overseas troops were slated to receive the RB about the same time. I would imagine, by 1905-06, a large number of troops had received it.

However, there are two opposing thoughts:

1) On one hand, the Philippines were seen as a potential "flashpoint" for a Japanese attack and early on, were often given the best weapons. Their military units, at least before WWI, were kept at a higher strength than the "skeleton" units often found in the States.

2) However, as the 1920s and 1930s came, they were often the last to receive new equipment. I remember a pilot, sent to the Philippines, noting that one of the "first line fighters" (A P-26) was the same aircraft he had flown as an advanced trainer!

[rice 123]

a little off subject but when did the navy give up the Lee

[45B20]

Rick

Not sure I understand your ‘Opposing Views’ especially #1.. It appears to be a good argument, that the first available M1903s went to the Philippines giving more support to the Mar. 1906 date.

Rice

In Dec 1898 a joint Army-Navy-Marine Board recommended that everyone adopt the Krag (uniformity,, etcetera). Initial issue to the Navy&Marines of Krags, was in Nov. 1899. By July 1900 the only Navy&Marines still armed with the Win.-Lee were those serving aboard ships in the Far-East. The Lee was still in use in May 1905 aboard some ships alongside Krags.

“By 1907 the US Navy began receiving the new M1903 Springfield rifle, but it wasn’t until 1911 that the Marine Corps was rearmed with the M1903 Springfield.”

“Sometime during the 1910s the Navy declared the Lee Straight Pull rifles surplus and disposed of them”.

“The author, while researching for his march 1970 American Rifleman article on the Winchester-Lee, found that some were still on hand in the Washington Navy Yard in the late 1950s”.

All of the above is from:: “The Winchester-Lee Rifle” by Eugene Myszkowski

I have seen reports that the Marines use the Win-Lee at Peking during the Boxer Rebellion of 1900. The one reference I have close at hand is “Military Bolt Action Rifles 1841 - 1918” by Donald B. Webster.

I have seen an interesting photo of a group of US Troops in Peking holding German M88s and I think they were Marines. Most likely the results of Ger. and US troops getting together and a photographer with a sense of humor.

45B20

[Rick the Librarian]

I'm not sure I understand my statement, either

I would opt for overseas troops being equipped first.