4T Questions - is there concensus on the answers ?

[madcratebuilder]

HOPEFULLY, if it's got no mid-swivel, there will be NO rifle S/N on the scope bracket. If swivel, then a number's fine.

You lost me on that one JM. I was under the impression that the king screw swivel was not 'issued' until after mid 1944. Why would having a swivel effect the scope bracket marking?

[jmoore]

Both are Post WWII additions, roughly.

Unlikely that a "working" rifle would have the swivel added immediately, but possible, I suppose..

Now a mid to late '44 can be expected to have the swivel from the get-go, yes. Brackets not numbered until 1947 or so when evrything still in the "home pool" tended to be upgraded. Note, though, that most trials (T)s didn't get the swivel unless they were completely rebuilt w/ new bits.

[bradtx]

Alan, I would expect at least the TR and T stamp. If the 'scope bracket is marked, it should point back to the rifle.

It's been out of the REME loop for quite awhile, maybe from when it was issued to the RAF, so bits could have been replaced without attempting to replicate any official marking.

Hopefully you'll feel comfortable enough with it to purchase it. They're a treat to own and shoot.

Brad

[Surpmil]

Alan,
Regarding your quote,
" Its been in the same hands for the last 10 years, and belonged to a friend of his for 10 years before that, so, it should pre-date all of the 4T shenanigans that have been going on with 4Ts."

Just remember Forgery has been around since the Romans were knocking out greek sculptures as originals....Its estimated that 40% of the worlds art is fake.

And probably half of it is at least as good as the originals! Han van Meegeren and his Rembrandts for example. Joseph Duveen's biography is a good short course in the utter falsity of the art dealer's world and the grasping rafinatti who populate a good part of it....

Getting back to No4(T)s though, I did have a 1943 AK5--- No4(T) and it had original TR stamps and the T stamp was there as well. Butt was replaced and it had not-so-lovely green paint from a trip through BW(S).

[Alan de Enfield]

I'm H.A.P.P.Y
Well here are the first batch of photos. I've said I'll have it so just waiting the Police issuing my variation.

It comes with a letter from our good friend Peter Laidler who examined it a few years ago and pronounced it 'kosher'.
Peter comments that the 34 BW C is 34th Base Workshops at catterick and that is was 'overhauled' in August 1968 and that the S51 Butt markings may have been removed at that time.

There is only a couple of questionable parts (that I can see) and that is :
1) that it has an "F" (Fazakerly ?) rear sight which has the aperture milled off but does not have the bottom of the sight milled to allow removal of the bolt.
2) No S51 on the Butt (but see Peters comment above)

More pics are on the way :

[jmoore]

Wow, now that's a late rebuild!

I shouldn't worry about the rear sight, I've never seen one yet w/ the "mod", but I keep hoping! The mismatch in maker is also of no concern- they just put a nice "fresh" sight on at rebuild w/ no regard to maker.

No "S51" as it has all nice new (and hopefully still properly bedded wood) all around. No dramas there, either.

Plus, you have a perfectly useless sight tool, just waiting for you to get a Mk.I or Mk.II(2) scope!

[Alan de Enfield]

Wow, now that's a late rebuild!

I shouldn't worry about the rear sight, I've never seen one yet w/ the "mod", but I keep hoping! The mismatch in maker is also of no concern- they just put a nice "fresh" sight on at rebuild w/ no regard to maker.

No "S51" as it has all nice new (and hopefully still properly bedded wood) all around. No dramas there, either.

Plus, you have a perfectly useless sight tool, just waiting for you to get a Mk.I or Mk.II(2) scope!

The tool might be useful as it is a Mk1 scope.

He has the 'correct' scope tool (see pic) but he is keeping that. ( I thought it was a tool for castrating bulls, but, he assures me it is the correct military issue adjusting tool, and the little 'double wing nut' tool was a 'cheat' made up by armourers on a local basis)

[madcratebuilder]

That is one sweet rifle, congrats.

[spinecracker]

Nice looking rifle, Alan - glad it has you as the owner. Having a letter from Peter Laidler confirming the rifle's authenticity is a huge bonus, as who is going to argue with him?? (ok, some may try...)

[Beerhunter]

1) that it has an "F" (Fazakerly ?) rear sight which has the aperture milled off but does not have the bottom of the sight milled to allow removal of the bolt.

The latter was a 'local' mod. It was never official.

None of the No4Ts that I have handled (not a lot) have had that done to the leaf sight.