Lanchester Mk1 SMG

[drm2m]

Peter,

This gun is registered in Canada as a converted auto. (CA)
The finish (and colour) is consistent all over the gun.

David



I have a collector friend in Ontario, Canada, that has a Lanchester, similar finish that is still full auto.

I have asked my friend for photos of his gun....if I get them I will post them.

[Peter Laidler]

I'm bound to ask, although it seems obvious, but what is a converted auto (CA) gun. Is it as it says, a previous machine gun that is modified in some way to fire in the semi auto role? How have they done it to your full auto Lanchester? On that basis, could you have, say, a Sten or a Sterling that had the change lever welded to the 'R' position?

[JamesB]

That is pretty much correct. For a short period of time if FA guns were restricted from firing FA they were sold here as other guns. That changed in 1996 (or so) and they were all prohibited although those with them were allowed to keep them. Conversions varied from gun to gun but often took the form of welding the FA selector (Thompson) or limiting it's travel (Uzi).

[drm2m]

Some additional photos that show the finish on this Lanchester.

The reason that I have done this is because the photos of the Lanchester are often so different (as far as finish is concerned) and show this gun in many ways.

I always thought it was difficult to understand what these guns looked like when issued.
I have seen enough photos of what these guns looked like after re-furbishing or substantial use.

Polished brass magazine housings, black finish on parts of the gun…inconsistent colour finish….the Internet pumps out all kinds of variations that are suggested to be original.

I would like to find one definitive authoritative source that can verify this subject…..and I own the book “The Guns of Dahlgren”…in the absence of good coloured photos I am still in the dark. (Unless I missed something?)

Great book on so many aspects of this gun…I am glad I own it.

There has to be one example in a museum somewhere in an unissued condition that shows this.

If I can get my friend in Ontario to send me photos….his full auto has the same finish as mine ….I think.

I will post them if I get them.

It is somewhat interesting that photos of most guns are available showing their original finish …and yet it appears so difficult with the Lanchester.

David

[Vincent]

drm2m,

Very interesting photos, and one very nice looking Lanchester you have there. Thanks for posting the photos.

It looks like there is a screw or something sticking out of the bottom of the trigger housing near the front. Does that have something to do with resetting the sear?

Obviously the original tripping lever is not used. Can you tell me how the sear is reset to hold the bolt open after each shot? It is still firing from an open bolt, correct?

[drm2m]

Vincent,

I never fired this gun and I don’t know how the conversion from full auto to semi auto was done.

NOTE:

I notice you are from Texas; your world is a lot different as it relates to these types of guns.

Current Canadian Laws prohibit the transport of full auto and converted autos to a shooting range.

David

P.S.

I don't know how many converted Lanchesters exist in Canada...I suspect ...not many...for whatever that is worth.

I think the conversion exercise from full auto was a pain in the butt with this gun.

[Vincent]

Ah! It is a screw and it’s attaching a leaf spring. The part the leaf spring is contacting is also not original. I also noticed the trigger bar has been modified and a pin installed to keep it in place. One of your other photos shows the trigger back and the sear up where it would engage the bent on the breech block. Yep! Someone did a first class job when they converted it to semi-auto.

I would love to do a conversion like that. But down here we have our own odd laws. So I am using a closed bolt set up. Your photos have given me some ideas though. Thanks.

I will post some photos of my trigger housing to illustrate the differences between the conversion and the Mk1*.

[Peter Laidler]

Just in case I'm missing something DRM2.............. if it's LEGAL to own a semi auto (and in some cases an auto) Lanchster in Canada but ILLEGAL to transport it to a range - or presumably anywhere - , just how do you lawfully use it? Am I missing the point somewhere. Seems strange to me. Is this someething that we call a law of/with unforseen consequences. Or what the lawyers call LUC's.......... but if you fall foul of it, they chuckle OUT of LUC

[browningautorifle]

That's the point Peter, they don't want you to use or own them for that matter. That's why I ducked out of the converted auto thing just as it got wind in 1998 or so. Sold all of them and bought a house instead. I know lots of guys that have dozens of them being held prisoner in their homes.

[drm2m]

Peter,

There are members on this Forum that are far more capable that I am to discuss this subject.
The following only relates to full autos and converted autos.

I don't remember the date (someone else can jump in here) the authorities stopped issuing
Authorization to Transfer (ATT) permits which would allow these categories of guns to be transported to a shooting range.
That certainly changed the ownership dimension of these guns.

Ownership of these guns are Grandfathered, and as this group gets older these guns will eventually have to be deactivated or scrapped as there will be no market for them.
I believe we will end up like the UK in this regard.

The deactivated guns will be the marketable product in the future.
I believe the value of nice "cock and click" machine guns (possibly) exceeds the value of live guns.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grandfathering dates in Canada for full autos and converted autos.

Grandfathering dates for CA- August 1st 1992. (Converted Autos)
Grandfathering dates for FA- January 1978. (Full Autos)

Prohibited Firearms
As a general rule, you may possess prohibited firearms only if you have been “grandfathered” under section 12 of the Firearms Act. Being grandfathered means that you can keep certain prohibited firearms that were registered to you on specific dates set out in the Act. To stay grandfathered for a particular category of prohibited firearm, you must continuously hold a valid registration certificate for a prohibited firearm in that category from December 1, 1998 onward. To be able to keep your registration certificates valid, you need to keep your licence valid.
You may also sell, give or trade prohibited firearms to other grandfathered and suitably licensed individuals.
Your grandfathered status only applies to the categories of prohibited firearms that are currently registered to you.

The categories of prohibited firearms are as follows: (machineguns only)
-full automatics (shown on a firearms licence as 12(2) firearms);
-converted automatics (full automatics that have been altered so that they can only fire one projectile when the trigger is squeezed) (shown on a firearms licence as 12(3) firearms)

I welcome any comments or corrections from Canadian collectors regarding this subject.

David

A possible regret;
The moment that permits to transport these guns to a shooting range were no longer available...the world changed for Canadian shooters/collectors that enjoy these types of guns.

I regret not deactivating the four converted autos that I own while the "cock and click" (Old spec in the UK)
deactivation was still possible. (PPSh-41, MP40, MP44 and the Lanchester.)
That is no longer possible...in Canada.

I own a very nice Thompson Mod.1928A1 and an MG42 that were (delicately) deactivated in the "cock and click" (Old spec) manner.

That type of deactivation will no longer be possible for the converted autos I still own.....I regret that.
I cringe at the thought of these fine guns having to endure being welded together so nothing moves.

The market in Canada is (currently) wide open for anyone to own these deactivated guns.....and from what I understand there is a very healthy demand for them.

If you can’t shoot them…what else is left?
Could the legislation change …possibly…..but I doubt it.

The "cock and click" deactivated Thompson and MG42 shown below.