Bren magazines

[Peter Laidler]

As a matter of interest, there was a miscellaneous instruction for the Bren issued in the early 60's regarding magazines to the effect that (and I can't find it, so can't quote it verbatim....) '....in order to regulate the widely used practice of defacing certain magazines for drill purpose use, by chamfering the rear breech block stops of the magazine platform, such defaced magazines will be marked with a distinct 1" tall red 'X' on the sides. This is to indicate that such magazines will not be used as service magazines in the future and should be kept seperate.

This instruction is not an authority to convert service magazines to a standard that will override the hold open facility but an understanding that and to regularise a practice that is widespread and serves both a training purpose and need.'

So, if you find such a magazine you'll know and understand the reasopn why

Information

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[Brit plumber]

Agh, that explains a photo I saw recently, although the X was a little larger than 1".

[Beerhunter]

At school,when short of drill rounds, we used to jam a half-penny (old not new) into the magazine to hold the platform out of the way. A fully reversible mod.

[Brit plumber]

We still use a New 1p coin to hold the mag platform down on the L85 during the Weapon handling test. They even designate it the 'Penny Depressor'!

[AmEngRifles]

I have a question about Bren mags. Although not along the lines of the DP conversion.

The flat band of metal that runs the entire interior length and acts to keep the bullet points gliding along a smooth surface (instead of the weld line which might possibly impede smooth movement); what was done with mags that somehow lost theirs? Are there replacements?

I have several mags, due to corrosion, that have now lost their straps. The mags were not severely damaged by the corrosion, due to the heavier gauge metal, but that thin steel flat rust right through at some of the edges, and would not stay in place, so they were removed.

Has anyone else experienced this and what does one do to correct?

Thanks,

Steve

[Peter Laidler]

I don't think that I ever replaced one of the little springs!

But good question Ameng because it throws up another little anomily. The purposr of the auxiliary spring is SAID to be to assist in the smooth feeding of the nose of the bullet as it makes its way down the inside of the magazine. So far, so good. But I can't see this written down anywhere OFFICIALLY. At the same time, a similar spring was inserted into the Boys rifle magazine and the reason for the Boys IS recorded officially as this. During recoil, while the gun rocks backwards, the rounds in the magazine remain where the are and beat against the inside of the magazine case, flattening the nose out slightly AND eventually punching dimples (from the inside of course) out into the front of the magazine. We have photographic evidence of this on file (and will be included in the Boys rifle book, if I ever get round to getting it printed.......).

The papers also say that this problem is also being investigated in the new (well it was new in 1939) Bren gun.

Does anyone else have any further comments. But back to Amengs question and to almost back up the Boys rifle answer to it, the Bren magazines were butt welded along the centre seam/join and so any grotty welding will be down the centre of the front spine and therefore shouldn't interfere in any way with the free passage of the two staggered rows of bullets as they make their way to the feed horns of the breech block.

[AmEngRifles]

Yes, it would seem that the general location of a center-line seam, and staggard rows of bullet tips might never actually meet!?

I could understand the Boys Anti-Tank rifle producing enough recoil to produce a dimple, but seems unlikely with the Bren? Unless you were shooting armour piercing ammo from the Bren almost exclusively.

So I shouldn't expect to find these little flats laying around surplus members homes and sheds in any great quantity?

The good thing is that only about 3 in 3 dozen mags actually have this issue. And when I do get around to securing my WSA semi auto Bren, I will make due note as to whether it has any real performance effect on a semi-auto Bren in the least.

[Peter Laidler]

Before you abandon the auxiliary spring-less magazines Ameng, just make sure that they didn't have them in the first place because if they didn't, they are original, early Mk1 magazine cases.

There were many variations of the magazines and components that changed the designation of the magazine. Some variations were just thet, manufacturers allowable relaxations in standards. The main ones were the springless case, dimple-less bottom plate, ditto with the retainer and the early magazine spring with very tight bends - that snapped. Later replaced with a more pronounced curve.

Anyway, just another bit of useless Bren info. But if the magazines ARE just missing the springs, I'd just ditch them as there's definately not a world shortage of Bren magazines!

Maybe the photo guru KG can show us the mag variants with his superb pics............. Over to you maestro

[Kev G]

My take on the punching of dimples into the magazine internal curve is that it looks to be caused by rim behind rim miss feeds ?


Two Czech made springless mags on left and three Enfield springless MKI mags on right showing damage where bullet tips have punched the inside of the magazine


Although the bullet head tips don't touch or rub the magazine internal surface the magazine platform does,or comes very close to it.



So was the auxillary spring to over come rim behind rim punches or to over come poor internal weld finishing (or to save time on weld finishing) or both ?

Later Czech made 303 magazines reverted to 'wrapped' sides with an internal curve filler strip that weren't welded in the centre of the magazine as rimless 7.92 ZB vz26/30 and rimmed ZB39 magazines .The same method of construction was used on UK Vickers Berthier mags but have not seen auxillary springs or instructions that they should be fitted ?


Left to right - VB,late Czech 303,ZB39,ZB26/30

Early type auxillary spring (narrow) shown bottom of pic until advent of MK3 with a wider auxillary sping,top of pic.


Box magazines are still prone to wear and tear and poor handling during service life,

although there are plenty about from the 30's that look and function as nearly new.

ATB Kevin

[tankhunter]

Whilst on the Topic of Magzines.
I had a smashing bit of luck the other day. A couple of months back, I had a collegue visit with regards to getting some Ferret Scout Car spares from me. The deal was done before he arrived in that in the deal, we would Swap for parts, There would be no exchanging of Money because we are both not very well off!
Well, In the done deal was a full box of 7.62mm LMG Mags. I opened them & saw they were all in refurb condition & VERY nice! The other day, I dont know why. But I decided to check out each one. At one end, that last mag looked different somehow, just sitting in the transit box. I removed it & examined it. Guess what I found?
It is marked X3E1 & has the classic Belgien Mag nib at the front like FN Rifle mags. NOT the later Brit Mod of a brazed retention lug. Experimental! obviously one of the first trial mags, How lucky was that? ! Oh a bit of luck, at LAST!