1917 bolo knife/bayonet?

[old-smithy]

I got the urge and bought one of the 1917 bolo's and the canvas and steel scabbards. GOt the urge to get all the makers of these and both the Military (got) and the commercial versions, the commercial just has some manufacturing differences but was still used by the US army. SHame is they remake the Plumb made ones so knowing th efake and the real is difficult, unless they tell you or it is too nice - but nioce ones exist to. Hate the people who remanufacture repro's and dont makr tham soi you know..

[gew8805]

I had no idea that they were making reproductions of thee Bolo. That is good to know. Mine are all originals with canvas covered scabbards but I do have a steel scabbard like the one in your illustration "on the loose". Those metal scabbards are still commonly available in like new condition taken from National Guard storage in the 1980s. A friend of mine bought a whole case (original marked case) at auction in 1988 or thereabouts. He sold them at $5 apiece. (Wish I had bought mine from him but he warned me that they would go up. The last time I saw one for sale it was $35.)

[old-smithy]

THe Plumb made 1917's are being copied with all original markings ad can be got for about $95 or half price, so many will be aged and re appear as originals at double the price. i bought the steel scabbard 2 weeks ago for $60 brand new in the original paper- which fell apart with age.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

It really is a sad situation, Carl, when manufacturers make new knives again such as Camillus did with their M4 bayonets -

They make them very close to originals because people liked the look of the originals. It really does cause problems though and manufactures who made them in WWII are doing a real disservice to collectors. I'm sure there are hundreds of people who've been screwed over by the modern made Camillus M4's that are actually worth about 1/3 the price of an original, and have zero collector value. (Many-times, even the seller doesn't know the new-made Camillus is not WWII vintage)

The only thing the maker would need to do would be to stamp a small date, or at least some other stamp on the blade or pommel so that it was apparent to a casual buyer/collector the new-made bayonet was not a WWII vintage. I don't think such a mark would hurt the value or appeal of a re-make to buyers who only wanted the inexpensive re-make bayonet.

Just for example, the bayonets below look the same when you aren't familiar. If you are familiar with the modern copies, it's pretty easy to see, but even some experienced carbine collectors have bought the modern Camillus M4's for their collection and don't know they're modern re-makes.

The modern Camillus grip (top) is not factory burnished like the WWII M4 specs required. This one has some burinishing just from handling it.



The guard is shaped a little different too, but without the side-by-side it's not apparent. The lack of an ordinance stamp (bomb) on the new-made M4 is another thing, but again, a casual buyer might not even think to be looking for something that isn't there.


The peening on the original M4's is distinctive, as are the rivets, but you need to know what to look for and without having another authentic M4 beside it, it would be easy to miss. The 'X' stamp wasn't there on WWII vintage Camillus bayonets, but they had a different shaped 'X' closer to the center on the government M4's they made in the 1950's




PS - The very-sharpened Utica above was my dad's bayonet from the Korean War. I know it was a real bring-back -
He brought it back in his footlocker with his uniforms and it was in there when I was a kid -
(I loved looking through his WAR stuff - I loved military items even at an early age)
I can remember when he made the leather sheath for it in the early 60's and he used it as a hunting knife that he wore on his belt when we went rabbit hunting in Alabama. In later years it ended up in his big rolling tool box where it spent the next thirty years being used as a utility knife. I never even knew it was a carbine bayonet - when my dad died in the late 90's I asked my mom if I could have the old shop knife and she gave it to me. I brought it home and cleaned off all the old paint and hardened putty, etc from it, and it took forever to stone out most of the deep gouges in the blade from sharpening it with a bench grinder over all the years when it was being used as a cheap utility knife. I bought my first carbine a year or so after my dad died and it had a bayonet lug on it. I was amazed when I discovered that my dad's bayonet fit it! (I didn't even know what a M4 was when I bought my first carbine)



It has little to no collector value but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[old-smithy]

I have a navy Mk2 ( i think) that was my Dad's boy scout knife during the war, as he used to play Taps over th efunerals I assume a GI must have give it to him never asked and now its too late. Like you well used and no commercial value, but will be the last blade i ever give up

[Harlan (Deceased)]

I'm the same way with thing's I wished I had asked my dad, Carl. I didn't get into military gun collecting until after he died and I think he would have liked it. He had a huge collection of hunting rifles and hand guns.

I also joined the Confederate Air Force the year after he died, and I know he would have LOVED that. He always loved the CAF air shows and neither of us knew there was an active CAF branch 30 minutes from us. He was a private pilot and he would have loved to fly some of the aircraft I got to fly. He was a workaholic and died when he was only 58 - he always said he wanted to check into the CAF membership when he had more time when he was older but he was always working too much. After he died so young I decided I would make time for myself and I've had the time of my life - just have thought so many times how much fun my dad would have had.

Hey, do you have a web site or something? I thought I read somewhere you did, and wondered if it was about knives. I only have about 15 bayonets and know a little about the ones I have but have an interest. I've been looking at bolos on ebay but I don't have enough knowledge yet to take a chance there. It seemed odd there are so many new sabbards and wondered if they were repro or how to tell.

Best regards,
~ Harlan

[old-smithy]

I always wanted to go to a CAF show, particularly as they were based at Harlingen where i was born, now they are at Midland and I have come back from Europe to Houston, so maybe one day! My web site is BAyonet Collection Presentation, or click on th elink below my name, please do not blame me if you take a while in there there are over 7000 pictures of around 2000 bayonets and knives, so its not a quick browse.

My dad collected medals and military unit patches, hwoulddl have loved tWebeb but he died before it was more than an enthusiast place with dial up connections. I have his whole collection awaiting identifications and scanning to load on my site. but with it running to around 10,000 items at a rough estimate it will take me more than a little while, and the bayonets take up too much time already.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Carl,

I have often thought the same about my dad. He bought his first computer about 1993 or so and he would spend hours upon hours working on it. His first only used DOS and then he bought another early computer a year later that had the first windows I think was called 3.0 or something like that(?) I used his computer sometimes and it was a pain in the rear to use the first windows, but he got it down pat. Back before that time he swore he would never get into the 'Computer Fad' - (He passed away from a brain tumor a couple years later)

I'm not just saying this because he was my dad, but he was the most intelligent person I've ever known and could figure almost anything out. I got my first computer in about 1995 and it came with windows 95 and got on the internet with dial-up right when I got it, and the first thing I thought was how much my dad would have loved the internet! Everything for years would remind me of my dad and how he should have lived longer than 58 years old. When 911 took place I thought to myself I was glad he missed it.

On a happier note! - Your web site is awesome! I just surfed it for 15 minutes and I'll spend a lot more time there for sure. Thank you for the link, and thanks for doing so much work on the web site. Until getting involved with Doug's (Badger) milsurp.com site I never appreciated the work and costs that go into running a web site.

~ Harlan

[old-smithy]

It definitly takes a lot of time. I am trying hard to make my site database driven allowing searches etc. and adding additional data and information on a subscription basis, its just turnign what i have into a site is taking me a lot of time, as addign the pictures etc. is no where near as easy as I hoped, and adding extra data on makers and rifles they fit too is difficult as it has been some years since i wrote Access databases on a regular basis and I never goto int VB or SQL, learnign my 5th or 6th language suddenly hit my full switch I think.


Enjoy my site, if you find broken links or errors please let me know,