AR-18 magazine ?

[smellie]

Thanks for bearing with me; I am understanding a bit more now.

One thing I do remember from that period was Stoner trying to interest the US military in the new rifle, which he said was sort of a product-improved M-16. One of the big selling-points was the interchangeability of the magazines. It was mentioned prominently in several articles in the gun mags of the time... but evidently they are not strictly interchangeable.

I hope the above tidbit excuses my treading upon thin ice.

[kobren]

Retired now with some spare time on my hands and ran across this post and hopefully I have something to contribute since I believe I have a sample of every AR-18 magazine of note barring USA mags and other undesirables. I can't see the photo of the milspec magazine package but my guess I have the same one and the sterile 30 rd parkerized steel mag that came in it. I'll speculate that the mag was probably mfg by ArmaLite in house. My guess is Federal and Mitchell were later independent spinoffs by former ArmaLite employees when they saw a market for aftermarket mags etc. I talked this over on the old AR180.com site and also discussed it with Pete Fleiss who has quite a bit of the ArmalIte documents/parts from the time John McGerty/Timberline Hawk shut down the shop. I was lucky enough to get some items from this period includeing some shop mags that were used for tests/trials/photos in manuals. A former Army special forces member that was a PD officer I knew served in Vietnam and claimed to have seen a few special forces members with AR-18 in Vietnam. Would it be possible that ArmaLite had the 30 rd parkerized steel mags available for trial along with the AR-18? I suspect that a small quantity of the 30 rd mags were sold by ArmaLite to LE and civilians for the AR-18/AR-180. Since a photo of the 30 rd mag is still up I'll post another photo of the milspec package.

[kobren]

Photos not sharp, I'll retake in am in sunlight.

[kobren]

These are a lot sharper/clearer. I'm guessing some of the printing (red) was done to identify the mfg of the polykraft package and the other printing (black) was addd by the mfg of the magazine to identify the contents/magazine. Any insight from members that are familiar with this packaging would be real helpful even if your not familiar with the AR-18/AR-180.

[kobren]

AmEngRifles and other interested members I did a Google search and found a company in Georgia that mfgs mil-spec packaging, Mil-Spec Packaging of Georgia. I was refered to a senior employee Bob that had been in the buisness forever. I described to him the poly kraft magazine package and the printing on the package. The printing in red is done by the mfg of the poly kraft paper, DAP Industries of Coumbus Georgia which is probably long out of buisness per Bob. Next the printing in black at the bottom that references the Richmond Corp. is the company that made the actual packages from the poly kraft paper supplied by DAP Industries. Both companies respectivly indicate that the material and package was mfg to US military specs current/required at the time of mfg in 1969. Lastly Bob was very helpful in explaining the printing under "Magazine Assembly, according to Bob A628-9047 indicates the magazine was mfg for the use of the US Army. According to Bob the magazine package was truely mil-spec for the period and I feel his info is highly reliable/expert. Considering the year it's highly unlikly I'll be able to trace the DWG. NO. A628-9047 on the net but I'll give it a try. Even if the package has no info on it that indicates it was directly connected to ArmaLite the M16-A15-AR180 marking leads me to believe that their has to be related to ArmaLite. I have never seen any aftermarket magazines packaged to this degree, mil-spec. My conjecture is that this unmarked AR180 magazine with mil-spec package was included with the AR-18 rifles that were evaluated around 1969 by the US Army. Since very few of these magazines/packages have surfaced over the years my feeling is they were mfg in very limited numbers and most either kept by the US Army, a few sold by ArmaLite/John McGirty to select buyers but never listed in a catalog and the magazines went unrecognizable as time went by due to no markings on the base plate and no packaging. I'd like to hear some feedback from members who could lead me in another direction if I'm off cource.

[kobren]

Here's my AR15/M16/AR18/AR180 sterile 30 round parkerized steel magazine that came in the mil-spec poly kraft package. I did some more reading, Black Rifle/web search and found that Colt had a 30 round alloy mag ready for production in late 1969/1970. ArmaLite had the AR18 ready for the second Army trials in late 1969 and later in 1970 for USAF tests. I'm sure ArmaLite was well aware of the DOD request that dated back to 1966 for a 30 round magazine and ArmaLite if smart would also have 30 rounders to supply for the tests. As for who mfg the ArmaLite magazines I'm 100% confident it was done in house. I have a 20 rd alloy "shop" mag with a sticker indicating it was sent to Howa/Japan to use as a sample for their production of their 20 rd magazines. In fact as far as I can see all three mfgs of the AR18/180 made their mags in house, Costa Mesa/Howa/Sterling. As for aftermarket mags etc probably Federal and Mitchell as I speculated were operated by former ArmaLite employees who took over some of the former unused Costa Mesa production facilities. The high quality of the Federal/Mitchell products is in stark contrast to the poor quality magazines offered by USA and a couple other aftermarket companies.

[RCS]

Attachment 37072Attachment 37073

Photos of the 75 round drum, there is a clear thick plastic back on the drum so that the user can view the cartridges. Most of these drums were sent back to the factory for a
modification and returned. Some drums had problems while some were excellent. I
believe these were the first drum magazines used on both the AR-15 and AR-18 series

[kobren]

RCS by all accounts that drum looks like it is very well built and today would be a real collectable. I also posted on AR15. re the sterile mag/package where I had a prior post on the same subject years ago.

[RCS]

Attachment 37133Attachment 37134Attachment 37135Attachment 37136

The very early AR-15 20 magazine had the small calibre stamping

Instructions from the 75 round drum

early pouch for the pre 1963 waffle magazines, I have also seen a four magazine pouch too

[kobren]

RCS I'll have to dig some to find pictures but I'm fairly certain Mitchell made a couple other accessories for the AR180 like a muzzle break, all high quality items. Not many of those waffle mags still floating around. I have some similar pouches for the 20rd mags, mine are rubberized, yours look to be canvas. Loaded up that 75rd Mitchell mag must of had some heft to it. I read some of my old notes on the M16/AR15/AR180 mag, with no markings on the baseplate it might of traveled to a few places in Southeast Asia where it wasn't supposed to be. I had some Mini14 20rd mags, verified factory mags, same thing no markings, allegedly intended for use in South America.