Rifling Pics for Noobs

[CelticCollector]

Was wondering if some of the more seasoned collectors can help out us noobs? I know it seems obvious, but can we get a pictorial of barrel riflings to see what pitting, copper fouled, worn out, and good rifling all look like. I am by no means a noob to firearms, just to milsurps. I think a good pic of bores in various conditions would help some of us in the long run. ANY help is appreciated. Thanks to all!!!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Son]

Here's a pic of an unfired Lithgow barrel, from the receiver end. It's not easy to get a good image of the rifling, probably harder to capture the true nature of a bore in poor condition. I'll try a bad barrel and get back to you later...

[Peter Laidler]

Good idea Son. What we really need is a good machinist with a selection of assorted good to absolutely shot out barrels and machine a 1/4 segment out of, say, a 6" length. I'm a firm believer in the one picture describes a thousand words school. That's why I religiously copy all Ed Hortons scematics for teaching purposes here at Warminster. And, naturally enough, I tell them that they are all my own work! Thanks Mr Ed!

But seriouslt, people DO remember and take on board something in the flesh as opposed to a dry old crusty pic or diagram from a book.

I use a selection of barrels that I have shown here. For example, the eccentric bore of a Bren/L4 barrel. It's priceless. GREAT idea Son and Celtic

[Son]

Peter, I had planned to 1/4 section a couple of barrels from the chamber end, mainly to de-bunk the idiot perpetuating the myth that Lee Enfield chambers are usually eccentric to the bore and cut banana shaped but the "rapid" fool's desciples burned me for being a witch

just for a laugh, and with apologies to Celtic, here's the dude's rant...
> PLEASE NOTE< ALL OF THE BIT IN RED IS ABSOLUTE CRAP AND IS NOT THE VIEW OF ANYBODY HERE

[COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"]Every few years a new crop of Enfield owners arise that have questions about the head spacing issues with their rifles. I have collected a small group of fired casing that were shot in rifles with know problems. There is a casing with a good chamber and excessive head space, one with a chamber drilled off center, and one with excessive head spacing and a too long chamber. I also threw in a fired casing in a rifle who's head spacing has been adjusted to a "normal" length and has been reloaded six times.
.303 Military brass has a very thick web in the casing which when fired in an Enfield rifle with excessive head spacing may not show any signs of case stretching. When the shooter tries a commercial loaded round and sees a bright band or an " hour glass" shape just in front of the rim, they assume that the brass is somehow faulty. Not true. It is your rifle. Any time you see a stretch mark or the case fails and parts in two just in front of the rim, its caused by excessive play. 8 of of 10 ten times it is excessive head spacing. The other causes are a too long chamber where the case is " blown out" to fill the shoulder area, or the chamber is out of round, drilled off center. Beleave it or not, this is not uncommon with these rifles. You gather up 10 Enfields and you will see fired cases from a couple of these rifles that show and off center / out of round chamber.
Why? You need to understand that these rifles were made in the time leading up to, or during a time of war. The British Army needed many,many rifles and needed then quickly added to the armories. Quality suffered as a result. The rifles were well used and showed up in all sorts of places after the wars. How and what was done to them is any ones guess.
Years ago I had a chance to spend some time in England. I met a fellow who was a British Army Armorer. He and I talked over beers about rifles and all sorts of WWI and WWII weapons in general. I brought up the topic of head spacing in the Enfield Rifles. He told me that they were taught to " To provide enough head spacing as to allow the soldier to carry a dry pair of socks" in these rifles. The reason being war time production of ammunition and the very different climates these rifles were to be used in. I asked him how they adjusted the head spacing, did they use the numbered bolt heads for the No4 rifles, or the varying length No1 type bolt heads to adjust the head spacing?. If they could get them,yes. But the number they needed was not always available out in the field. 95% of the time the bolt body was shortened or replaced from another rifle being used for parts.

[/COLOR]

Anyway, back to the topic on hand- I'm afraid they took our milling machine away, so doing the cutaway may not be possible. I'll have a go with a cutting disc and see what happens, but may not get to it for a while.
In the meantime, everybody with a decent macro camera should have a go at photographing a bore or two and post them here. See if we collectively can get a range of pics together for a suitable sticky and make Celtics great idea a reality.

Here's another attempt that failed ages ago. Bore mirror under a light in the chamber. This was the best of many- FAIL!

[JBS]

Bad photo of clean just out of mummy wrap 4/2 Now that the wife has a new Nikon and set of lenses I may try again,Attachment 13821

[CelticCollector]

I will attempt to take pics of my bore of a 49 4/2 when I get off work in the morning. To me it looks great, but here again I'm no expert, and the reason for wanting good pics from various people. Thanks to all and lets see if we can't get a good photo montage of excellent to smooth and pitted bores.

[Alan de Enfield]

Dimensions for a 'new' barrel - taken from "Machining the Lee Enfield Barrel (Operations & Fixtures) may 25th 1916

Diameter of bore - 0.303" accept, 0.305" Reject
Depth of rifling - 0.005" accept, 0.008" Reject
Width of lands - 0.0936"

So - thats where we are starting from

[bigduke6]

Have a few scrap barrels i can section if it helps, am in the workshop next few days, milling machine is set up for this as i,ve just done a scrap action and barrel as a deact, so wont be too much trouble.

Selection off the top of my head would consist of a bulged barrel, a couple of shot out enfield barrels and my old barrel off my portugeuese mauser which would show the effects of corossive ammo, can compare this lot with a new section of barrel.

Think the complete barrels would be best sectioned in three parts using a slab cutter at the chamber, the centre and the muzzle this would show the effects of throat and muzzle erosion.

[Edward Horton]

What ever happened to the good old days when a little imagination and being dirt poor (or a really cheap bastard) and making due with a few simple things around the house.

If you want to look inside your bore you need the cheap bastards bore scope, first you need a bore light.



Then you need one or two magnifying glasses.



Now turn on your bore light and place it in the chamber, next take your magnifier and look inside your bore at the muzzle end and you will see a close up of the inside of your bore.

(some cheap bastards even buy reloading magazines with bore scope advertisements.







Links below with bore scope photos and bore scope movie of two diffrent barrel bores.

Hawkeye BoreScope

2007 July 24 AccurateShooter.com Bulletin

http://www.6mmbr.com/f/Lilja_BoreScope_VID.wmv

Foam bore cleaner works better than anything else you can use to clean your bore.

[Son]

Great, Bigduke! They would be ideal!!!!!