Snider Rifled Musket - Very Strange.......

[conductor]

Yesterday, a guy walked into the gun store where I work with a Snider Rifled Musket, wanting to sell it or trade it towards an AR-15. I'm kind of the antique guru in the store, so the guy was referred to me.

I looked at the gun, and the first thing I noticed was that the stock felt a bit sticky. Almost as if the linseed oil finish had not dried properly. The stock didn't show any signs of having been recently refinished, however. But the stickiness bothered me. I asked the guy where he had gotten it, and he told me that a friend had brought it back from Afganistan.

The gun was in fairly nice condition. No bluing left on it, but no signs of abuse.... just a well-used old gun. Lots of proofmarks with the "VR" on them, and a barrel marked "steel".

The action didn't work very well, however, and the inletting around the lockplate was not as good as one would expect.

All these things got me really suspicious, so I took the lock off, and found that the inletting had all been done by hand, and that the internal lock parts were all rather crudely hand made.

So what I've got here is a Khyber Pass rifle. The guy who brought it in told me that he had owned it for about 4 years, and I'm certain that it was probably made not more than a few years prior to that. From what I understand, there are literally hundreds of small shops making and selling Snyders, Martinis, Enfield Number 1s, and all sorts of pistols....all made by hand by a half-dozen or so workers in each shop. I remember seeing a No.1 "Enfield" at a gun show several years ago that was dated 1915, but had a "VR" proofmark on it. The VR stands for "Victoria Regina", and of course Queen Victoria died in 1899 (I think), well before the date marked on the No. 1

Anybody ever run in to one of these things? I'm trying to get a handle on what it might be worth. If it were a real Snyder, I figure it would probably be worth $500 or so. But since it's a Khyber Pass fake, I don't think it could be worth any more than half of that.

Comments?

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[browningautorifle]

Your probably right, there are a dozen threads on that subject on this web site. I think they're a curio but others would burn them in effigy. I certainly wouldn't pay any kind of premium for them!

[Harlan (Deceased)]

I wouldn't touch it. Especially in trade at a gun shop where the gun will most likely be resold.
No value - Only liability.

It seems to me they should have only the value of a wall hangar, or non-firing repro. The likelihood of possible failure and liabilities is overwhelming. They shouldn't be thought of as legitimate firing rifles, or even put into a legitimate 'category' of dangerous rifles, as if they are low number Springfield or something.

Someone down the line will be hurt or killed.

JMO,
~ Harlan

[Johnny Peppers]

Years ago a friend had a couple of the Khyber Pass pistols. One was a fairly nice looking copy of a S&W, but the other was a rough Martini action pistol chamber for .303 British. He jokingly said their vise for filing parts was to sit down, bring their heels together, and use this as their vise.

[browningautorifle]

I've seen them hold their vise between their heels. Kind of like a cross slide vise. Very small. Sitting on the dirt floor of their shop. The drill press was turn of the last century. That's why I think these things are mildly interesting, I wouldn't want to try that. Sometimes my work was only passable with a Sharp lathe and milling machine!

[bearhunter]

Personally, I think there is a market for them. I thought I had a KP Martini but it was pointed out to me that the Martini was actually built by a government arsenal in Afghanistan, then "modified".
The craftsmanship in some of those KP firearms is incredible. My hat is off to them. Some, are junk, plain and simple, some are works of art. Some are also indicative of the skills that have been passed on from one generation to the next, with little or no formal education.
I can understand the skepticism, indicated by many here but to tell the truth, I don't know if it's really warranted. Of course, some of these firearms aren't safe and a prudent person, wouldn't take a chance on them, seeing as there are so many decent, legitimate, specimens available at reasonable prices. That being said, they are turning out thousands of these firearms. If, they were blowing up and killing people, on a regular basis, they would soon be out of business. Not only that, they still believe in the blood feud over there. If a shop and its craftsmen, were turning out firearms that were killing or maiming the user, he would pay the ultimate litigation fee, in blood.
Give credit where it's due. Those firearms, may be questionable and may or may not follow specs. They are unique and in many ways, should be an inspiration to us all.

I can still remember the aritcle in an old magazine, about a vet bringback from Viet Nam. The fellow had two. One was a US made Thompson SMG, from whenever and a hand made 45acp pistol that readily accepted USGI magazines. It was hand filed, brazed and drilled etc. Not a work of art and seeing as the bbl was home made as well, without rifleing, not accurate. It was a status symbol for the maker and it went bang. It was a fine piece of memorabilia. I've always wondered what happened to that pistol.