Center Sling Swivel

[bigstick61]

As Armourers, we wouldn't fit wood that was battered about or gouged as you say. Big offenders for that were the New Zealand Maouris who would carve the handguards of their L1A1 rifles. But if they came in to us like that, they'd be replaced. I had a beautiful set from an L1A1, all carved with a Kiwi bird surfing on a surfboard wielding a machette or some sort of a knife, maybe a 'gollock' that we were issued with. Carved underneath were the words 'death and torture to all VC'. VC being the Viet Cong. But no, we'd replace butched woodwork.

Well that answers my question. At some point someone issued my rifle carved multiple parallel notches in the top of the wrist of the butt stock with a knife.

[smellie]

Sounds very much as if you have a rifle which was rebuilt, reissued, saw some more service and acquired itself a set of kill marks.

Malaya, you say? Big thing there they called The Emergency, sort of a prelude to the Viet-Nam War. Lots of Number 5s being used.

I think you can accept that yours is The Real Thing.

How on Earth did you find a rifle which served in Malaya?????

[bigstick61]

Sounds very much as if you have a rifle which was rebuilt, reissued, saw some more service and acquired itself a set of kill marks.

Malaya, you say? Big thing there they called The Emergency, sort of a prelude to the Viet-Nam War. Lots of Number 5s being used.

I think you can accept that yours is The Real Thing.

How on Earth did you find a rifle which served in Malaya?????

I've heard about the campaign in Malaya.

The way I found the rifle is that I wanted to check out a gun store by my college that I hadn't been to before (partly motivated by one of my friends wanting to by a SIG pistol and desiring to shop around). I went in not really intent on buying anything in particular. I looked over the counter and noticed the No. 5 sitting in the corner against the wall. I had been interested in getting a Lee-Enfield, especially a "Jungle Carbine." I had recently learned about how to distinguish the real thing from a fake based on the lightening cuts and inspected it and found that it was genuine. It wasn't in the greatest shape but it looked good enough; I had never seen one in a store before (even now I've only seen them for sale online). So I bought it. Found out at the range that the gouge caused by the band Mr. Laidler described meant that when the weapon fired the handguard would almost pop off and the first shot actually chipped a piece off of the handguard that goes under the retaining band at the rear; only the cosmoline had kept it in place. I had to tape up the handguard really tight. Eventually fixed it in a very unsightly way.

Anyhow, it was not until much later and after checking out these forums that I learned about the FMP mark (which I did not really pay attention to initially) and about other similar details. I also thought nothing of the marks on the wrist until I saw a number of weapons used by commandos of the Orange Free State with similar markings that were of course described as kill or tally marks. That is why I wanted to know if those marks would have with some certainty come from the user of my rifle or if they could have come from the user of the rifle the wood was original to, and it seems this question has been answered in a manner I find satisfactory. Unfortunately when I refinished the rifle after repairing the gouge (I didn't like how the heavy lacquer finish looked anyways) I made the marks less prominent due to my sanding, but they are still visible.

Given how much I've heard about what horrible shape rifles used over in Malaysia I'm actually surprised at how nice my bore is. The crown is excellent and I can easily see prominent lands and grooves at the crown. The lands and grooves within the bore are pretty sharp and the bore is fairly shiny. There is some minor pitting, but it is not too bad. Most of the pitting is on the outside, and it sometimes can be rather bad, but the bore and chamber are great.

[grant580]

Regarding the SMLE target sling swivel made by Parker Hale offered on ebay mentioned by bigstick61. I recently purchased one from a gun show exactly the same as that one. I took out the target sling swivel (the one that does not clear the loop) from my LB no 4 mk 1 * and put in the Parker Hale one and it fits in there with zero resistance and the threads seem to be the same. This swivel does NOT fit my Enfield no 1 mk 3.

The swivel is marked with a British broad arrow and is marked "216 J", and of course is marked "Parker Hale, made in England". The end of the screw is slightly domed as mentioned by RJW NZ who indicated that only no 1 mk 3 screws were domed. Could it be possible that someone has ran a die or thread chaser over these threads to make it fit a no 4 rifle? Or is it just coincidence that the end of my sling swivel is domed? Really confused about these various swivels, anybody have any comment on this one?

[grant580]

Here is a picture of the target sling swivel I recently purchased.

[Mk VII]

216J is the correct stock no. for No.4 & 5 rifle.

[Alan de Enfield]

216J is the correct stock no. for No.4 & 5 rifle.

I could be wrong (failing memory) but I'm sure that in the dim and distant past these were discussed on the old Jouster forum.

The 216J is the 'correct' CIVILIAN swivel but it allows the swivel to swivel past the breech-cover tying loop in front of the trigger guard so twisting the sling and is therefore not correct for a 'military' rifle.

The 'correct' MILITARY one has a shorter shank and does not allow the swivel to swivel past the breech-cover tying loop in front of the trigger guard.

Have I remembered correctly ? - comments.

[Mk VII]

Yes; but as far as the part number goes, it's the right 1/4 BSF thread.

[grant580]

Couple of more question about this sling swivel I have recently purchased marked "Parker Hale, made in England", marked 216 J.

I have re-read the paragraphs regarding the center target sling swivels in the excellent Milsurp article on the Enfield no 4 mk 1 T sniper rifles and the concensus seems to be that these Parker Hale sling swivels that cleared the loop were not standard issue on the "T" rifles and of commercial origin. Why then does it have a military part number as indicated in a thread posted by our much respected senior members Alan de Enfield and Mk VII and a British broad arrow stamped on it?

Also is the 1/4 BSA thread specifically for the No 4 and no 5 rifles or is it for the SMLE's?

Pardon my ignorance, and hope these are not stupid questions, I obviously have a lot to learn about the Enfield Rifles and am really enjoying learning about them but the answers to these questions are not obvious to me. Looking forward to your responses.

Also, did anyone see the target sling swivel exactly like mine labelled as a swivel for a SMLE go for $100 recently on ebay? If they are marked with a broad arrow does this make them more rare or valuable?

[Mk VII]

That's the commercial P-H stock no., not a military one. Yes the threads are different for Sht LE, (and earlier). As to the arrow, who knows. You're the one who's looking at it.