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Banned
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08-30-2010 12:20 PM
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ok , lol, so, i see what this is become..no matter what,. your right im wrong.. if that makes you warm and fuzzy...then so be it...
like i said....lets see your work...... its easy to pick somebody else work apart... if you ca talk the talk,,,,,then walk the walk..
if you dont have the skills, tools or actual hands on experinace, then you advise unwarranted...anyone can just pirate pics off the net, from someone else work and experiances, and cut and paste pictures from books ect...
the picture you pirated from my post...before i did a couple passes with the deburing tool, {just to show what was done} i dropped the muzzle from about 4 feet into my concrete drive way..about 6 times, so that it would deform the muzzle..this is not something i would personally use as a real fix...however, if a muzzle is damaged in the field, or if you dont have access to the correct tools....IT WILL WORK IN A PINCH...
see, i figured this out... your the type of guy thats picked people work apart all your life.. and feel good about it....thats sad, i for one have open mind for the most part, and learn to keep things simple. and provide good safe advise, and look at other ways of doing something rather then dump a bunch of money into a low dollar project.
i took the time to show that i can , cut a muzzle crown, it actually took more time to download the pics then the time spent on my lathe... if your going to talk smack, and try and make me look bad,...step up...show us how its really done.. alot of people are watching and reading... actually had a couple calls from fellow members about this little rant...my responce?
have no idea, what started this guy off, lets just watch and see if he,s got any skill or full of hot air... so....show us...
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Whilst performing the crowning operation is GENERALLY best done on the lathe (where a ham fisted non-caring operator can really ruin things quickly),I fail to see what's wrong w/ roughing out the crown w the deburring tool and then finishing w/ the lapping balls or similar, in certain situations, such as this SKS. It just depends on the person doing the work. A careful and observant craftsman can easily make a good and servicable crown w/o a lathe. In actual fact, I've had to retreat from the piloted Brownell's tool to a less "precise" cutter on more than one occasion to achieve proper results. Again if the edges are cleanly broken and the chamfer is visibly centered to the bore, the end result will be the same, unless we're trying to go sub-1/2 MOA.
The recess is for protection from dings, and the bore should end in an even manner, that's it. All the rest is more or less "eyewash".
As far as the "horror" of hand tools goes, I've bored out and recut the rifling in my family heirloom squirrel rifle completely by hand, as the initial results on the lathe were wretched. 42" of hand bored and hand cut rifling that is accurate enough to take squirrels (1 to 1 1/2lb greys, big fox squirrels are rare around here) at 50yds w/ teeny iron sights- if the nut behind the trigger does his part!
I'm done, and I think Hylander is done except for some cosmetic enhancements, so have at it!
ETA: OK, I'm not quite done. I think Hylander should have shot the rifle before doing anything else, as noted in my first post. At least establish a baseline. I've a No.4 Mk.1 that has a factory crown which was so quickly done in '43 that it looks threaded (and DEEP too!) and it manages 3 MOA, sometimes 2- 2 1/2MOA. My first L42a1 has pits in the crown which have worried me since 1994 or 5, but it still shoots sub-MOA, sometime really sub, off the bench w/ 155 sierras. Would a pretty crown help either of those two? Not bl**&y much, I reckon!
Last edited by jmoore; 09-01-2010 at 02:48 AM.
Reason: photo, ETA, species clarification
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Originally Posted by
jmoore
Whilst performing the crowning operation is GENERALLY best done on the lathe (where a ham fisted non-caring operator can really ruin things quickly),I fail to see what's wrong w/ roughing out the crown w the deburring tool and then finishing w/ the lapping balls or similar, in certain situations, such as this SKS. It just depends on the person doing the work. A careful and observant craftsman can easily make a good and servicable crown w/o a lathe. In actual fact, I've had to retreat from the piloted Brownell's tool to a less "precise" cutter on more than one occasion to achieve proper results. Again if the edges are cleanly broken and the chamfer is visibly centered to the bore, the end result will be the same, unless we're trying to go sub-1/2 MOA.
The recess is for protection from dings, and the bore should end in an even manner, that's it. All the rest is more or less "eyewash".
As far as the "horror" of hand tools goes, I've bored out and recut the rifling in my family heirloom squirrel rifle completely by hand, as the initial results on the lathe were wretched. 42" of hand bored and hand cut rifling that is accurate enough to take squirrels (1 to 1 1/2lb greys, big fox squirrels are rare around here) at 50yds w/ teeny iron sights- if the nut behind the trigger does his part!
I'm done, and I think Hylander is done except for some cosmetic enhancements, so have at it!
ETA: OK, I'm not quite done. I think Hylander should have shot the rifle before doing anything else, as noted in my first post. At least establish a baseline. I've a No.4 Mk.1 that has a factory crown which was so quickly done in '43 that it looks threaded (and DEEP too!) and it manages 3 MOA, sometimes 2- 2 1/2MOA. My first L42a1 has pits in the crown which have worried me since 1994 or 5, but it still shoots sub-MOA, sometime really sub, off the bench w/ 155 sierras. Would a pretty crown help either of those two? Not bl**&y much, I reckon!
Nice Smoke Pole 
And done by Hand, Awsome 
I didn't shoot the SKS first, 1 because it was so ugly and 2 I was bored sitting around.
I do plan on rounding the outside edge so it looks better, but I probably won't recess the Crown unless I ding it.
I have in the past Counter bored a 39 Tula Mosin 91/30 and a K-98 Mauser about .5" deep to get to good Lands. Those where done on my table top drill press with a Carbide bit and then an End Mill bit and finished with Lapping compound.
The Mosin shot about 1.5 MOA before, after it shot Sub MOA.
The Mauser already shot close to MOA, but after it did shoot MOA.
I was very happy with the results.
Here is the Mosin:
Not to worry, the Bipod is not attached.
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Ach, so! So you're not new to the process...
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Banned
Originally Posted by
jmoore
Whilst performing the crowning operation is GENERALLY best done on the lathe (where a ham fisted non-caring operator can really ruin things quickly),I fail to see what's wrong w/ roughing out the crown w the deburring tool and then finishing w/ the lapping balls or similar, in certain situations, such as this SKS. It just depends on the person doing the work. A careful and observant craftsman can easily make a good and servicable crown w/o a lathe. In actual fact, I've had to retreat from the piloted Brownell's tool to a less "precise" cutter on more than one occasion to achieve proper results. Again if the edges are cleanly broken and the chamfer is visibly centered to the bore, the end result will be the same, unless we're trying to go sub-1/2 MOA.
The recess is for protection from dings, and the bore should end in an even manner, that's it. All the rest is more or less "eyewash".
As far as the "horror" of hand tools goes, I've bored out and recut the rifling in my family heirloom squirrel rifle completely by hand, as the initial results on the lathe were wretched. 42" of hand bored and hand cut rifling that is accurate enough to take squirrels (1 to 1 1/2lb greys, big fox squirrels are rare around here) at 50yds w/ teeny iron sights- if the nut behind the trigger does his part!
I'm done, and I think Hylander is done except for some cosmetic enhancements, so have at it!
ETA: OK, I'm not quite done. I think Hylander should have shot the rifle before doing anything else, as noted in my first post. At least establish a baseline. I've a No.4 Mk.1 that has a factory crown which was so quickly done in '43 that it looks threaded (and DEEP too!) and it manages 3 MOA, sometimes 2- 2 1/2MOA. My first L42a1 has pits in the crown which have worried me since 1994 or 5, but it still shoots sub-MOA, sometime really sub, off the bench w/ 155 sierras. Would a pretty crown help either of those two? Not bl**&y much, I reckon!
Mr. jmoore "and" chuckindenver
Mr. jmoore, I just reread your posting and the words "A careful and observant craftsman" and I apologize to chuckindenver for my heavy handed comments. So "YES" there is a difference between a average joe with hand tools and a experienced "craftsman", my problem is spending 25 years in Quality Control as a Inspector watching the "average joe" screw things up and this influences my comments.
To clarify there are some tasks the average joe should NOT do, and this is one of them.
One of my most enjoyable "firearm" days was at Williamsburg Virginia watching the "village blacksmith" (a skilled craftsman) make a flint lock rifle, watching the barrel being made was a pure joy to see. This flintlock barrel was crowned by filling it flat and crowning it with a ball bit using a hand drill while rotating the hand drill in a figure eight motion.
The problem in many forums is there are too many Primitive Pete's telling the forum members "how to fix" firearms and as a retired Inspector this drives me up the wall.
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