Lithgow 1916?

[fisho-123]

Greetings from fisho-123,I have been collecting militaria for the past 30 years,I am a disabled Vietnam Veteran,my main collecting field is Boer War and WW1,mostly medals and trench art.Recently I was shown a Lee Enfield 303 Sniper Rifle,it is marked Lithgow 1916,and on the butt is marked M/A either 1 or 7/.45,it is fitted with the cheek piece and scope mounts.the serial number of the rifle is 48880,can anyone tell me anything of the history of this rifle and if I decide to buy it how much should I pay??any information would be appreciated.

Information

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[Steve H. in N.Y.]

Did you check out this article yet?

1917/1945 No.1 MkIII* H.T. Sniper Rifle (Short Bracket)

No idea what the going rate is but I know they ain't cheap. Going by the serial number, this rifle was converted to sniper spec in January 1945 so I guess there's not much question of it's authenticity.

[fisho-123]

Steve,thanks for the info,I am a complete novice in the field of rifles,it is such a nice thing and in very good condition,the price I have been quoted is very cheap,so I might buy it .regards fisho-123.

[Son]

Fisho. In the books by Ian Skennerton (The Lee Enfield Story and the recently updated edition "The Lee Enfield") he documents the list of serial numbers of all the rifles converted to "No1 MkIII* HT". The serial number 48880 is on the list and shown as having been completed and sent to store on 01/02/45.

Read the information at the link from Steve H and if you may like to have a look at my sniper rifle survey in the stickies at the top of this board (link)

Lithgow No1 MkIII* HT Sniper Rifle Survey

Here's a "canned" response I put together a while back to get people started on the rifles..

HT Brief History.
In 1944 production to fill an order for 2500 telescopic sight SMLE sniper rifles was begun. The order was for 1250 Highmount or “Medium Bracket” and 1250 Lowmount or “Short Bracket” rifles. The scopes, made in Melbourne by A.O.C, (Australian Optics Co) were fitted with rings and base mounts, and supplied as an assembly matched and numbered together.
The vast majority of the rifles were converted from WW1 manufactured rifles. The reason was that they "flexed better due to superior metalurgy". Also the machining tolerences in the actions were tighter originally making them easier to work into an individually fitted and finished unit for accuracy. There have been quite a few British made rifles noted as having been converted, as well as a number of WW2 vintage Lithgows. At the outbreak of WW2, civilian rifle club members were asked to hand in their rifles for the war effort. This is how a lot of already heavy barrelled and bedded WW1 Lithgows came to be in store at the factory
Roughly the process was- inspect the rifle and gauge all parts. Any parts that were within the tolerances set for the HT could be kept. (this is why some civilian range rifles that were handed in at the start of the war could have retained older H barrels, walnut or Queensland maple fore-ends etc). Any parts that were replaced were not needed to be numbered to the rifle as there was a standing order that the HT's were not to be stripped with any other rifle on the bench- no chance of mixing parts on re-assembly. (quite a lot have un-numbered bolts, nosecaps, rear sights etc...) Bolts were lapped to the action, the heavy barrels were fitted and the fore-ends relieved and bedded to the actions. Then they were proof fired, bolt lugs checked again and re-headspaced. They were then tested for accuracy using the standard sights. Any that failed were returned and re-worked (bedded) and tested again. After passing accuracy testing they were machined for the scope mount bases. A numbered scope "set" was fitted (these were used in very close to numerical order as the rifles were made) and re-tested for accuracy. If passed the scope was engraved with the rifle serial number and the finished units were boxed in pairs and sent to store. After a certain date (escapes me at the moment) the cheekpiece (and front triggerguard screw swivel) were added to the job, but not fitted properly. This was to be done at unit armourer level to suit the individual sniper if needed. The rifles already in store had a cheekpiece and screws as well as the swivel tossed into the box.
At the end of WW2, production was cancelled with only 1612 units completed. 1131 Highmounts were done first, then production switched to Lowmounts in July ’45, completing 481 before cancellation. The total scope production had apparently been complete long before this, so there was most likely nearly 900 left over. 100 of these were used during the FTR, some may have been used as replacements for rifles in service, and a lot were sold off through the gun trade.
During the early fifties, 100 rifles were taken from storage and went through FTR (Factory Thorough Repair) as an exercise for the tradesmen at the factory. All were fitted with scopes from the left-over production, all lowmount.
There have been a number of HT’s come to light that have been re-wooded with authentic parts and fitted with new ’53 dated barrels. It is widely thought that these had seen service in Korea and were refurbished at Base Workshop level on return because the harsh climatic conditions had left the rifles in a poor state.
When the rifles were sold off, quite a lot were delivered or handed out straight from the crate. Being boxed in pairs, with scopes off the rifles in their cases, there was a fifty fifty chance of being given the right scope and case for the rifle. This may have been when a lot ended up with miss-matched scopes.
A lot of HT’s were sold to rifle club members who usually removed the optics and fitted aperture sights. This would help explain the number of scopeless rifles, rifleless scopes and miss-matched sets.
Through having recorded contributed details to my survey questionnaire on well over one hundred HT's, I am in the position to be able to make an educated judgement on the authenticity of a rifle if given enough information.

If your friend would like to know as much as possible about the rifle, the survey questions can be replied on line or sent in private to my PM address here. Any contributors details are held in the strictest confidence.

Now, as for value... your location will have a bit to do with it. In Australia the asking price for sales that are being paid is between $5,500 and $6,500. There has been three or four change hands at this price in the last few months. The overall condition is the main factor, but if it has matching scope and mounts (see the linked articles for info on where to look) then it may add to the price.
In the US you could expect to pay a little more, even up to US$8500 or more.

[Mk VII]

If the price is cheap, beware. Why is it cheap? This number does appear in Skennerton's list, admittedly, but numbers can be altered.

[Son]

MkVII makes a very good point. There has been quite a few of these rifles faked with original but unissued left over scope and mount sets. Have a very close look at the serial number and be sure it hasn't been re stamped.